paraka | SGA Season 4

SGA Season 4

Can I just say, it's really weird watching the episode without the sound being finished. I mean in the little "Last time on Stargate Atlantis" bit in the intro the would show the explosion of the beam hitting the city, and you'd *see* everything blow up, but there isn't any sound. :P

Also, for later sound effects you could hear one of the crew offstage yelling "Bam" or "do do do" or "Ahhh" as the case required. Very amusing.

Can I just say, that without background noise and dramatic music to back him John sounds like a *complete* dork. So, so, dorky.

Also, have to wonder if TPTB were around last April for all the race discussions that went on, because I have never seen the Atlantis personal looking so multicultural. There were flags from all over on shoulders in the first ep.

There are a lot of people who are indifferent to Weir, and a lot of people really upset that she's leaving the show, but to be honest? Her storyline is pretty damn kick ass. I don't think I could have been nearly as upset about Carson dying if he had gotten a story line like that. d

Also, brings about the chance for Evil!Replicator!Weir. I think that this is maybe the best storyline the Weir character has gotten.

The shipper in me though, was suddenly seeing Weir/pretty much everyone. For a second there, I though Ronon was going to *kiss* her. And John was *crying*. Rodney was breaking all these rules to save her, and Teyla was *there* for her; saying the risks were worth it.

It really kind of annoyed me how Sheppard was acting. Throwing his weight around, saying he was in charge now that Weir isn't. I mean, all he was doing was getting in the way of Rodney, and it wasn't really a military situation, it was a scientist situation. Rodney so should have been the one in charge.

It was awesome to see so much Zelenka. Although the background tech yelling "Bam Bam" as he got shot detracted a little for the situation.

Overall, great episode.

paradise_city what was that moment you were talking about?

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*sigh* Why can't I keep these down to one comment? Stupid character limit! *shakes fist*

You can't be serious. This happens?
Yep! :P What was really funny is at the end of the episode the guy goes back to living with the other ascended ancients, but comes back in season 9 or ten. As like a 12 year old, who still is in love with Carter and she's totally weirded out by it :P (not that I can blame her)

Also, oh, Rodney! You never really had a chance to start with, but you certainly can't compete with an Ancient!
To be honest I think the Ancient guy always freaked Sam out a bit because he was all "I love you so much! Even though my body is so you it can't hold an erection for more than 5 minutes!" Sam's definitely had more serious love interests. And now I need to go dig them up and suggest them for your recent post. :P

[Condensing here, though it's still two comments long, damn it.]

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John as a character has too many faces, and often not enough transition between them to make me follow him. Instead he comes off as an asshole.

I have tried so hard to figure out why this is, because I think John could be one of those characters I fall head over heels for if I could just get a read on him, but I can't. Who John is in any given episode seems to be a combination of what the story calls for, who wrote the script, and some other indefinable quantity, like what JF had for dinner 37 days before the first full moon of the month the script was written.

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Switching fandoms, Don, in Numb3rs does that sometimes. I mean I *love* Don, he's the reason I watch the show, but every once in a while he'll do something that makes me go :S.

Don and John, yes. I made a post last season sometime about how similar they really were. (Or actually, I might have just been mocking their hair and pants, but meant to write a serious post about how similar they are.) What's different for me is that the writers can really redeem Don. I was incredibly impressed at the end of last season when the writers showed some of the positive changes in Don as a result of his being in therapy, and it just bowled me over. Don's a bit mercurial too, but the writers do a much better job of justifying it to the point that I can usually buy it. Plus, I just love Don. I don't really have that kind of attachment to John.

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and Carter through her brilliance shows him up and then has him exiled to Siberia.

Switching gears back to SGA now. Personally, the Siberia thing has always bothered me. I only saw that episode once and with my goldfish memory I barely remember it, but it's so strange for McKay to go from "She exiled me!" to "I want to romp with her!" Granted, SG-1 McKay, early SGA McKay and later SGA McKay are all different people, but hello, she had him exiled. To Siberia. Because she didn't like him. Can we say bitch? And yet, I still kinda like her, mostly sight unseen. Oh, Stargate -- the tangled web you weave!

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Every time Weir took John down a step, she always did it in private; behind closed doors. But in Trinity, after Doranda, we see Weir screaming at Rodney in the middle of the gate room where everyone can hear.

Y'know, I must have watching that episode a dozen times for a fic I had to write and I never noticed that until you pointed it out. It's always bugged me that Weir is so easily walked all over (as it apparently bothered TH as well, judging from some remarks Martin Geo made in commentaries), particularly by Sheppard. I know he's supposed to be the devil may care, play by his own rules type, but Weir was willing to work him and he wasn't willing to work with her. There are times when John comes across as downright childish and petulant for a military commander. Although I suppose that's the 1,343,040 iteration of Who's John Sheppard Today?

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It makes me feel sad for Rodney, because things like this just kind of drill home the fact that he's loved for his brain. I would like to think his friends like him for more than that, but sometimes their actions? don't say that.

And you've hit on one of my major character issues with Rodney: how self-aware is he? I can't ever make up my mind as to whether he really is so socially awkward and desperate for friendship that he doesn't see the way John & Co. use him or if he's self-aware and nonconformist enough that he just doesn't care. It plays out a lot in fic where people like to make Rodney out to be the world's most terrible boss, yelling at people and being short-tempered, etc. etc. and that's really not what we see. We've seen him be worried about his scientists even when they've screwed up and praising them when they haven't and missing them, to some extent, when they're not around. So someone who's a decent boss like that (not to mention someone who's been involved in a romantic relationship for a few solid months) has to be somewhat self-aware, but then he does these other ridiculous things like let John treat him poorly and completely miss the fact that people care about him and it just drives me crazy. Rodney is, in my mind, either completely unaware or completely self-aware and I just can't figure out which I buy most.

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He's totally changed who he is, and while I think he likes who he is more now, I have no doubt that a lot of those changes were done so he could better fit John's ideal of a good friend.

That's a really interesting take on things. I'll have to mull that over some. Because you're right -- a function of the show or not, so much of Rodney's world revolves around John. That's a really interesting dynamic.

It's always bugged me that Weir is so easily walked all over (as it apparently bothered TH as well, judging from some remarks Martin Geo made in commentaries), particularly by Sheppard.
I can take how she handles Sheppard more easily than how the character is handled as a whole. I mean, she's supposed to be this great diplomat and negotiator, and that hardly ever presents itself. Wasn't it in the Game, where she was trying to negotiate a peace treaty between Sheppard's and McKay's people and after about five minutes she just kind of threw her hands up in despair? Come on. She was supposed to have been world famous for her skills, so much so that the President of the United States looked her up for *help* and she can't even help these people get over their petty differences? I also find Weirs character nieve in so many ways, and with the history we've been given of her she *shouldn't* be. Like she's not used to people disappointing her, or breaking the rules, or not listening to reason. If she was negotiating treaties in the Middle East, for the UN, how could she have not run across this kind of stuff before.

There are times when John comes across as downright childish and petulant for a military commander.
OMG yes. I know they had Weir fight to keep him in charge because it was needed for the show, but I have to wonder if it were real if she would have, although I could see her being worried over who they would choose to replace him.... And, I know it's been mentioned in fics a gazillion times, but in real life, how often does the military commander actually spend time on the front lines? In SG-1 Hammond went off world only a handful of times, the commander is supposed to be more of a paper pusher (I'm hoping that's what they'll do to Carter when she comes over). And from all accounts John isn't even all that good at paper work (remember his performance reviews?).

I can't ever make up my mind as to whether he really is so socially awkward and desperate for friendship that he doesn't see the way John & Co. use him or if he's self-aware and nonconformist enough that he just doesn't care.
I think he cares, but he's probably spent his whole life with people judging him on his brain. Kids wanting to be his friend for projects, or to get his "help" on homework; bullies beating him up. Colleagues jealous of his work and brilliance, others wanting a chance to learn from him. I think his personality grew from that. HE made himself abrasive so that he's *know*. He would have an excuse for those who hate him, and it would give him a buffer to help him realize that those that like him, probably aren't there for *him*. So he's used to people using him.
With Atlantis though, with John, I think he kind of lets his guards down and lets himself forget that they mostly just want his brain. But every once in a while, you can see Rodney's hurt shining through. The most obvious example is McKay and Mrs. Miller. We see how hurt he is to see his team interacting so casually with Rod. I think though, he's more afraid of being alone than of being hurt by them. I know that *I* do that sometimes. I make excuses for my best friend when she hurts me, I put up with things that I sometimes shouldn't, because I feel I need her more than she needs me, and don't want to rock the boat. I think that's the way it is with Rodney. (I can't tell you how long it took me to write this, and how many times I deleted and had to start over...).

That's a really interesting take on things.
I think you're always affected by your friends, and the closer you are the more you may change. A lot of the time the changes are ones that bring you closer to who you really are, or have you doing things that you enjoy more, it's not always a bad thing, but it makes me wonder if John knows how much power he has over Rodney. Because he can be so careless with him, and if he knows, that just makes John a huge asshole, but other times he seems to *use* that power over Rodney, and well, those times often make me think he's an asshole, so, hm....

And back to the thread thar refuses to die. :)

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She was supposed to have been world famous for her skills, so much so that the President of the United States looked her up for *help* and she can't even help these people get over their petty differences?

Oh, they mentioned that in commentary and it burned me up. The director said something akin to, "Well, I know that Weir's supposed to be a great negotiator even though she's failing miserably at it here, but hey, that was the story needed." I wanted to hit him in his face for that. Gah.

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I think though, he's more afraid of being alone than of being hurt by them.

Hmm. So you think Rodney's social needs are important? I tend to think that Rodney probably doesn't mind being alone and enjoys the pleasure of his own company to that of others, but that may be the "push them away before they push me" aspect you mentioned. I'd have to think about that some more.

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(I can't tell you how long it took me to write this, and how many times I deleted and had to start over...).

And this is mostly why I kept this comment sitting in my inbox for response -- thanks for sharing that information about your friendship with me. It's not easy to admit things like that to someone you don't know very well, so thanks. :)

FWIW, I've been in a friendship like that, but as the other party. And when I finally realized what was going on, that my friend thought for whatever reason that she wasn't good enough for or that I could do without her, I was really surprised. I had never thought her expendable, but I looking back I realized I'd probably inadvertently taken advantage of her willingness to please me in order to ensure I stuck around. (And I'm not implying that's analogous to your friendship at all, just that it was my interpretation of our situation.)

Friendships are so complicated, more so than romantic relationships in some ways, and I can see aspects of that with John and Rodney. John really does take advantage of him and Rodney lets him, probably because of that hero worship you mentioned (and the more I think about that, the more I really see it). Sometimes I really want them to go to couple's counseling even though they're not a couple because some aspects of their relationship can be so WTFy. (On a side note, I'd love to see more fic where John and/or Rodney are on different SGA teams, because those really exploit that WTF factor to both humorous and tender ends.)

So, yes. Thanks for sharing that personal bit with me. :)

I wanted to hit him in his face for that. Gah.
You're right, that just makes things sooooo much worse. It's one thing if they've just kind of forgotten or something, but to just... not care? *head desk*

So you think Rodney's social needs are important?
Yeah, I think he's gotten used to people. He's gotten used to having friends. I think he'd *rather* be able to go on without them, but when it comes right down to it, he'd now miss them a *lot* if they were gone.
...Not that we were able to tell from Carson going... Grr.

thanks for sharing that information about your friendship with me. It's not easy to admit things like that to someone you don't know very well, so thanks. :)
I actually find it slightly easier to tell these things to people on-line than I do to people in RL. That layer of anonymity and biased opinions helps. :)
I think the thing with me and Sara is... we met at university, and had a lot of other friends there, but we were always closest. Then we went to China together, and I think it just being the two of us, I got on her nerves a bit. When we came back though, I went back to Ottawa, where I had grown up, and she went back to university, where she had a lot of other friends. I don't have many friends around her, so want Sara to be there for me, but she's crazy busy in general, and has friends that are closer, so it's kind of a hassle to do things with me. She doesn't get as lonely as I do though, so she sees the hassle as much bigger than I do.
She's also the kind of person that spreads herself really thin and tries to please everyone. But instead she kind of ends up pleasing no one, or not giving the people around her the time they want/need. Like, I would go up and visit her on some of my weekends, but she'd be working all day Saturday that we'd have only a few hours together instead of a weekend. And while I understand she needs to work, it just makes the 10 hour drive to visit her seem like a waste. Especially since the last time that happened, she ended up leaving me alone and hanging out with her room mates at one point. :S

Okay, yeah. I know I asked you a few comments back how you and Sara met and I thought you'd met at school, but I thought I was making that up. Obviously not. Sorry about the memory fail.

It sounds like you really make an effort to keep things going with her. I can't imagine driving 10 hours to see someone. Eight's my limit, and that's only because my friend was alone for Thanksgiving. Hi, I'm Summer, and I abhor travelling.

But yes, word on the lovely anonymity of the internet and word on the difficulty of friendships. When they're good they're great, but even when they're only so-so, they can be terrible. Relationships can be so difficult.

,Okay, yeah. I know I asked you a few comments back how you and Sara met and I thought you'd met at school, but I thought I was making that up. Obviously not. Sorry about the memory fail.
That's fine, I don't expect you to remember all the details of my life. If it makes you feel any better, when I was doing my RL meme and writing letters, I wrote this one long letter about visiting Kingston, and thinking of them, since they lived there, and then when I went to mail it, I saw they lived in Toronto. *head desk*

I can't imagine driving 10 hours to see someone.
Well, 10 hours round trip, probably closer to 9. And I generally visit my sister while I'm down there.

have tried so hard to figure out why this is, because I think John could be one of those characters I fall head over heels for if I could just get a read on him, but I can't. Who John is in any given episode seems to be a combination of what the story calls for, who wrote the script, and some other indefinable quantity, like what JF had for dinner 37 days before the first full moon of the month the script was written.

Ah ha ha ha, that last line totally made me laugh. And you know what? It's so true, especially the part about story lines/writers. John characters mood is just whatever. Like in 402. I don't know why he got *so* pissed. I mean, I can understand anger, but he was *livid*.

Don and John, yes. I made a post last season sometime about how similar they really were.
It's true, and weird at the same time. I don't care that much for John, but I am totally in love with Don.

What's different for me is that the writers can really redeem Don.
I think that has to be it. I think the writers at Numb3rs do a much better job of showing that Don is stressed. SGA they make it all seem like it's the usual, and their jobs, and even McKay often doesn't come across as overly stressed (you just chalk it up to his personality, or heat of the moment). With Numb3rs though, you can really see them hurting. The scene of David and Colby getting drunk and Colby talking about Afghanistan comes to mind here.

I was incredibly impressed at the end of last season when the writers showed some of the positive changes in Don as a result of his being in therapy, and it just bowled me over.
Yeah, and I'm glad it wasn't just the one session, that they brought Charlie into it, that it seems (I hope!) to be a sort of ongoing thing. Again to compare to SGA, how big of a joke is Kate Heitmeyer (or however you spell it)? I mean, come on.

it's so strange for McKay to go from "She exiled me!" to "I want to romp with her!"
Oh part of the reason she was so happy he was exiled, was because Rodney had a thing for her before that. I think in their first meeting he leered at her and said he had a thing for "Dumb blonds". The next episode he was in, I can't totally remember, but I think he backed off a little bit, and tried to show his sensitive side (that's when he explained about his childhood, and playing the piano).

but hello, she had him exiled. To Siberia. Because she didn't like him. Can we say bitch?
Well, to be fair, I don't think *she* specifically had him exiled. She just showed him up, which might have lead to the decision by the higher ups, and gloated a bit when he was told.

It all kind of comes back though, to how SG-1 are the typical heroes. They never do anything wrong, and when someone tries to disagree with them, they get shown up, out classed and punished for their actions. That's what McKay's character was at first, a foil(sp?) for SG-1.

Also, I'm trying this quote thing out for the first time, so if this comment gets to you twice, or is horribly mutilated, sorry. :S

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With Numb3rs though, you can really see them hurting.

Yes, that's it's exactly! The SGA characters are a product of their states, while the Numbers characters are a product of their traits. That really does make all the difference. Thanks for crystallizing that for me. :)

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Again to compare to SGA, how big of a joke is Kate Heitmeyer (or however you spell it)?

Oh, that drives me crazy. Honestly, I don't expect to see psychology represented accurately or well on television, but there's such potential on SGA. I've seen some excellent fics that include sessions with Heightmeyer and it works brilliantly. I'm biased, of course (that's my area of study), but there are several great ways it could be used on the show if Heightmeyer weren't so incompetent. But I try not to rant about it too much.

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Well, to be fair, I don't think *she* specifically had him exiled.

Ah, I didn't know that! Every time I've seen it referenced, I've (incorrectly, obviously) interpreted it to mean that she personally had him exiled. It all makes more sense now. Kind of.

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Also, I'm trying this quote thing out for the first time...

The quote thing -- I'm using the Firefox extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3903), actually, since LJ's quote function is useless. If it bugs you (it bugs some people -- something about too message boardy or something), let me know. I'm just trying to find ways to make LJ more easily readable since my vision sucks. :)

That really does make all the difference.
It's so true too. I don't think Numb3rs ever tries to make it's characters seem *perfect* which Stargate does try and do. And it's even worse when watching SG-1 because they try too hard to pass them off as heroes that you sometimes stop thinking of them as human. For me at least.

Ah, I didn't know that! Every time I've seen it referenced, I've (incorrectly, obviously) interpreted it to mean that she personally had him exiled. It all makes more sense now. Kind of.
Yeah, Sam wasn't like "Mwa ha! I called in favours and off to Siberia you go!" Rodney had said that it was impossible to get Teal'c back after so much time, but Carter proved him wrong and broke the Russian's DHD while at it. To try and pacify the Russians the Americans said they'd send their Stargate expert to work with them. Except when the news was given to Rodney it was done in a smirking way like "This is your punishment" I think Sam may have been in the room, or else mentioned it to him afterwards, I don't clearly remember, but I know it was Hammond that told Rodney where he was going.

If it bugs you (it bugs some people -- something about too message boardy or something), let me know. I'm just trying to find ways to make LJ more easily readable since my vision sucks. :)
Oh doesn't bother me a bit. I just thought it was kind of cool, and would give it a try, but obviously I didn't have the correct tools. :P

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