On Reviewing in Fandom

[paraka]

So, I'm probably throwing my two cents in at the end of this debate but whatever. I've been reading the meta (slowly) about whether it's ok to say negative things about fanworks (if people have missed this and would like links, just ask, there are a ton floating around). Normally I'm one of those people standing firmly on the side of the cult of nice but this time, I just can't do it.

I think we all come into fandom, not only with different life experiences (mine tend to put me in the cult of nice) but into different environments of fandom. The point where I got into actively participating in fandom (and producing fanworks myself) there was a bit more room for reviews than my current place in fandom has. When I started vidding poison_pagan was posting her reviews to vidding and even though she would often say negative things, I was eagerly looking forward to her reviewing one of my vids (she announced she wasn't going to watch any more QaF vids before she reviewed any of mine). In fact, she inspired me to start my own vidding critique journal, I never shared it with anyone and now I'm really glad I didn't because, quite frankly, I didn't know what I was talking about. I just knew what I liked and what I didn't, I couldn't articulate why. I feel I've gotten better now (although, I'm by no means a vidding expert) so I also occasionally volunteer for the_reel and am a member of vid_critics (although I haven't participated there yet). (Random question, are there such comms for fics? Since I'm not a fic writer, I've never seen or looked for them, but I'm wondering if vidders are just different).

The thing is, I can remember my very first "in depth" review I ever received. There was a feedback exchange on vidding and exsequar got my vid The Otherman. I can honestly say, that review (which is here if anyone is interested) changed the way I vidded. Even though I had done mostly POV vids up until that point, I had never *realized* that I was doing POV vids! exsequar brought that up, she kept mentioning POVs and how I would randomly change the POV and I realized she was right! I did that all the time, because I wasn't thinking of POVs when I was vidding! It was such a basic thing that I could have picked up had I read any meta on vidding, but it had never occurred to me. All my vidding knowledge at the beginning of my vidding career came from watching other people's vids. I knew what I like and what I didn't and I stupidly thought that would be enough.

I think it can probably be worse with writing because we all write every day. We all had to take it in school, we don't think we have to go and research how to do it. Which is why I think critical feedback and reviews are great. They give creators a chance to experiment and have the information come to them. Have the information personalized to their styles and delivered right to them. They give the creator a chance to see other people's reactions. And, they give the reviews a chance to articulate things to better understand them too.

Most of us have betas but sometimes it's a matter of having a *good* beta. Sometimes we choose our friends to be betas, friends who can't tell you when things aren't great. Or don't recognize when things aren't working. I know that when I first started vidding, I'd show my vids to carr0ts1979 but she was more of a cheerleader than a beta. Once I started seeing more critical reviews, especially of my vids, it made me go looking for vididng meta, it made me want to become a better beta myself. Had I not been involved in such an environment, I'm sure my vids would never have improved (well, I *hope* they've improved!).

Comments

[edgyauthor.livejournal.com]

I fully agree with you. Constructive criticism is needed if people ever hope to improve, with fandom projects or otherwise, because it's not possible to spot all errors on your own. No matter how much I study writing, it's the feedback I get from others that really makes me want to take it a step further. Too bad not everyone is open to critical feedback and will lash out at you at the slightest thing negative in a comment, even if it is just to be helpful.

[rae1013.livejournal.com]

I agree that critical evaluations are essential for creative works. Obviously. That's why I started vid_critics. When I started vidding, way back in 2004, I thought I knew enough about style and technique from fangirling other vidders. I was wrong. My first vidding attempts contained every mistake I could have made. Talking heads, stray clips, random scenes, lack of story, excessive effect use (including that damn speed option). Oy! I need dramamine to watch my very first vid it's so damn fast.

However, I recieved really *nice* feedback in the beginning that never pointed any of this stuff out. It wasn't really until I started to get better on my own that I recieved more critical reviews. Which is just ass backwards if you ask me. The only really helpful feedback I recieved came from _gater_ and the_muppet over on the <href="http://kawoosh.co.uk/forum/index.php">
Kawoosh! forum. I remember squeeing like a fangirl whenever either of them left reviews on my vids. They were always honest, respectful and pointed out things I would have never noticed on my own.

The simple fact is, I think, that if a vidder wants to evolve and grow then critical feedback is essential. If a *vidder* (I use the term loosely here) only wants praise and fame within a contained field of other *vidders* then they usually bitch, moan and lodge attacks against any negative comment that may have helped them get better.

*Sigh*

I may have just rephrased what you said. I just wanted to throw my two cents into the pot. And there you go. Two cents doesn't get you a lot these days. =)

[kronos999.livejournal.com]

I have decided to throw my two cents in here even though I am typically on the consumption side of fandom rather than an active ficcer or vidder.

A good critical review is a wonderful thing. I have rarely received them and the first time it happened I was a bit put out (I was VERY young and stupid. I still feel guilty about it since the reviewer was totally on the money.) Every time after that I have been immensely grateful that someone went out of their way to help me improve and, in the end, I generally agreed with their assessments.

There is, however, an other side to it. I think in some ways the cult of nice prevents the people giving reviews they think are critical, but actually are just mean. Yes, flamers. Some of them do it on purpose, but others don't realize it. These people are usually young, though sometimes only in fandom terms, and end up giving a flame as feedback. They may not intend to, but a negative comments which are not constructive are only hurtful. Telling someone that their fic/vid sucks because it is XX pairing and it would have been so much better if it was XX or something similar (especially in a public post rather than a private message) has absolutely no value. Maybe 'it would have seemed more realistic to me if you had done xxxx' or 'Maybe you could consider XX pairing next time' is acceptable. I have a feeling that this does not happen as often on LJ as in some other forums since the demographics tend to be more experienced fans, but has happened to me (and to other writers that I enjoy) often enough that I firmly believe in the cult of nice. At least until one knows what is acceptable as feedback and what is not.

This would be generally true for me for vids. I am more into fic, so I could only say what I like and don't like. If I don't like something, there is no way I could give a review beyond 'I thought it kinda sucked' or 'I just didn't get it' or 'huh?'. And that just isn't fair to someone who has put so much time and effort into something.

There is an exception to this. If something has been posted specifically somewhere for critical reviews in order to improve it, I think it is pretty fair game.

So, there's my thoughts. A critical reviewer with experience that can tell how to improve is a great thing, but for those of us without it, we should probably stick with 'if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all'.

Regarding the lashing out at negative feedback, assuming that you are respectful with your comments. If the fan is inexperienced, they will probably do this the first few times until they develop a thicker skin and realize you are trying to help them. It will happen eventually. Just reviewing your old work requires it. Oh, does it ever. And, if they don't grow up, I'd stop bothering with feedback since they clearly don't want to improve.

I haven't been reading the meta-posts at all so I hope this is semi-coherent and I'll leave my rambling here rather than continue to torture you with it.

[the-muppet.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see some links please, and also if you could point me in the direction of some useful meta comms I'd be grateful =)