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On Reviewing in Fandom
So, I'm probably throwing my two cents in at the end of this debate but whatever. I've been reading the meta (slowly) about whether it's ok to say negative things about fanworks (if people have missed this and would like links, just ask, there are a ton floating around). Normally I'm one of those people standing firmly on the side of the cult of nice but this time, I just can't do it.
I think we all come into fandom, not only with different life experiences (mine tend to put me in the cult of nice) but into different environments of fandom. The point where I got into actively participating in fandom (and producing fanworks myself) there was a bit more room for reviews than my current place in fandom has. When I started vidding![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
poison_pagan was posting her reviews to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
vidding and even though she would often say negative things, I was eagerly looking forward to her reviewing one of my vids (she announced she wasn't going to watch any more QaF vids before she reviewed any of mine). In fact, she inspired me to start my own vidding critique journal, I never shared it with anyone and now I'm really glad I didn't because, quite frankly, I didn't know what I was talking about. I just knew what I liked and what I didn't, I couldn't articulate why. I feel I've gotten better now (although, I'm by no means a vidding expert) so I also occasionally volunteer for the_reel and am a member of vid_critics (although I haven't participated there yet). (Random question, are there such comms for fics? Since I'm not a fic writer, I've never seen or looked for them, but I'm wondering if vidders are just different).
The thing is, I can remember my very first "in depth" review I ever received. There was a feedback exchange onvidding and exsequar got my vid The Otherman. I can honestly say, that review (which is here if anyone is interested) changed the way I vidded. Even though I had done mostly POV vids up until that point, I had never *realized* that I was doing POV vids! exsequar brought that up, she kept mentioning POVs and how I would randomly change the POV and I realized she was right! I did that all the time, because I wasn't thinking of POVs when I was vidding! It was such a basic thing that I could have picked up had I read any meta on vidding, but it had never occurred to me. All my vidding knowledge at the beginning of my vidding career came from watching other people's vids. I knew what I like and what I didn't and I stupidly thought that would be enough.
I think it can probably be worse with writing because we all write every day. We all had to take it in school, we don't think we have to go and research how to do it. Which is why I think critical feedback and reviews are great. They give creators a chance to experiment and have the information come to them. Have the information personalized to their styles and delivered right to them. They give the creator a chance to see other people's reactions. And, they give the reviews a chance to articulate things to better understand them too.
Most of us have betas but sometimes it's a matter of having a *good* beta. Sometimes we choose our friends to be betas, friends who can't tell you when things aren't great. Or don't recognize when things aren't working. I know that when I first started vidding, I'd show my vids tocarr0ts1979 but she was more of a cheerleader than a beta. Once I started seeing more critical reviews, especially of my vids, it made me go looking for vididng meta, it made me want to become a better beta myself. Had I not been involved in such an environment, I'm sure my vids would never have improved (well, I *hope* they've improved!).
I think we all come into fandom, not only with different life experiences (mine tend to put me in the cult of nice) but into different environments of fandom. The point where I got into actively participating in fandom (and producing fanworks myself) there was a bit more room for reviews than my current place in fandom has. When I started vidding
poison_pagan was posting her reviews to vidding and even though she would often say negative things, I was eagerly looking forward to her reviewing one of my vids (she announced she wasn't going to watch any more QaF vids before she reviewed any of mine). In fact, she inspired me to start my own vidding critique journal, I never shared it with anyone and now I'm really glad I didn't because, quite frankly, I didn't know what I was talking about. I just knew what I liked and what I didn't, I couldn't articulate why. I feel I've gotten better now (although, I'm by no means a vidding expert) so I also occasionally volunteer for the_reel and am a member of vid_critics (although I haven't participated there yet). (Random question, are there such comms for fics? Since I'm not a fic writer, I've never seen or looked for them, but I'm wondering if vidders are just different).The thing is, I can remember my very first "in depth" review I ever received. There was a feedback exchange on
vidding and exsequar got my vid The Otherman. I can honestly say, that review (which is here if anyone is interested) changed the way I vidded. Even though I had done mostly POV vids up until that point, I had never *realized* that I was doing POV vids! exsequar brought that up, she kept mentioning POVs and how I would randomly change the POV and I realized she was right! I did that all the time, because I wasn't thinking of POVs when I was vidding! It was such a basic thing that I could have picked up had I read any meta on vidding, but it had never occurred to me. All my vidding knowledge at the beginning of my vidding career came from watching other people's vids. I knew what I like and what I didn't and I stupidly thought that would be enough. I think it can probably be worse with writing because we all write every day. We all had to take it in school, we don't think we have to go and research how to do it. Which is why I think critical feedback and reviews are great. They give creators a chance to experiment and have the information come to them. Have the information personalized to their styles and delivered right to them. They give the creator a chance to see other people's reactions. And, they give the reviews a chance to articulate things to better understand them too.
Most of us have betas but sometimes it's a matter of having a *good* beta. Sometimes we choose our friends to be betas, friends who can't tell you when things aren't great. Or don't recognize when things aren't working. I know that when I first started vidding, I'd show my vids to
carr0ts1979 but she was more of a cheerleader than a beta. Once I started seeing more critical reviews, especially of my vids, it made me go looking for vididng meta, it made me want to become a better beta myself. Had I not been involved in such an environment, I'm sure my vids would never have improved (well, I *hope* they've improved!).
no subject
I wouldn't consider "I thought this kinda sucks" to be a critical review. Neither would I, which was my point. I wouldn't consider myself capable of giving a critical review so I wouldn't give a negative comment at all. It is why I don't leave feedback for things I dislike unless I can make some suggestions (along with things that I did like about the work since I wouldn't be bothering if it was irredeemable).
I am probably just wary since, as with many other people, I have received flames which were, I'm sure, in the the eyes of the writer a critical review. One memorable 'well-intentioned' 'review' of some length that added up to "I hate this pairing WTF is wrong with you OMG slash is wrong you are going to hell" when reading between the lines. But I probably shouldn't throw out the whole bushel for a few bad apples and just get over it.
To me, a critical review is like a beta Yes. That is exactly how it should be. except with the understanding that the product is finished. Or is it? The best vid beta I ever had was someone who emailed me out of the blue and worked with me for a week on something I had considered finished. Both of us on dial-up so sending things back and forth was painful and her using English as a second language.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with remastering something, though it doesn't seem to be common practice after it has been released. Or maybe that is just my wish to remaster my first vid which had an awesome choice of song and terrible quality footage (and terrible quality vidding). Actually, there is a thought. I haven't touched any vids since LJ became dominant in fandom so I don't know if it exists already. Are there any communities meant for doing critical reviews of 'not-quite-done' pieces? It would be interesting to see how something would evolve based on feedback from what would essentially be group betaing.
Back to the critical comments and reviews. Perhaps it would be best to let it depend on the creator. Some people really do just want to hang something on the fridge, are fiddling around just for fun and don't really want negative (even if helpful) comments. Maybe people asking for critical reviews being taken seriously would be the key. That way those that are willing to listen get the feedback that they want and those who are just going to be insulted don't get bothered with it and waste the time of the reviewer.
so most of the comments to this post have been different. I guess they would be. And I'm wasting your time again. Maybe I should meta on my own LJ ;)
no subject
*nods* I think that's still the best policy if you're not going to be giving critical reviews.
And you know, I think I must be sheltered or something because I don't think I've ever gotten flammed for any of the 11 vids I've posted over the years. I've gotten some critical reviews that have pointed out problems I once got a pretty useless beta that upset me but never anything I would consider a flame (for my vids).
Or is it? The best vid beta I ever had was someone who emailed me out of the blue and worked with me for a week on something I had considered finished.
I have known a few people to go back and do remixes, and certainly some who have gone back and fixed a few things in fic, I just don't think you should go in and do a review with the expectation that the artist will go back and fix their work. I know that I would love to go back and fix up some of my vids, the thing is, I don't have the files any more so I'd have to start again from scratch. Even my more recent vids; the working file for a single vid can work out to be 80+ GBs with the source files and renderings. I just don't have the space to keep those on my computer and while I'd like for my vids to be perfect once I have it posted I'd prefer to move on to something new than to constantly be going back and fixing the old one up. Vids can also be tricky because people often save them to their computers and watch those versions, so they won't always get a chance to see the revised version, certainly not if you're going to update it multiple times.
Are there any communities meant for doing critical reviews of 'not-quite-done' pieces? It would be interesting to see how something would evolve based on feedback from what would essentially be group betaing.
Yep,
Perhaps it would be best to let it depend on the creator.
*nods* It would be nice if there were more comms out there that were for critical reviews, that way it's the artists choice if they want to to post their fics there.
I guess they would be. And I'm wasting your time again. Maybe I should meta on my own LJ ;)
Hey, you can't waste my time. My journal welcomes meta and rambling as much as people are willing to throw at me. Feel free to continue as much as you'd like :)