Hmm, from the perspective of an author (that being myself) I think podfic in general is a bit frightening. One of the things I'm struggling with, as a podficer, is this idea. Because, on the one hand, I don't want to scare authors away from letting us use their stories, on the other hand, I don't want to have someone go into this blindly and have to deal with the potential fall out later. In response to this post, revolutionaryjo made a Dear Author post and I think that seems like a good compromise. That way people's expectations are spelled out, especially since there's no one set of expectations (revolutionaryjo seems to fall on the authors-have-complete-control end of the spectrum, there are others who are on the podficers-have-complete-control side. Personally, I'm in the middle somewhere).
but as a writer am I missing the whole point?... The essence I'm getting out of the OP is that podfic should be treated as a separate fanwork based on my fanwork? I think you're missing it a little? Podfic is a lot like a translation but I don't think an author should have complete control over a translation either. I think... When you write something, you put a lot of time and effort into it. You want to make a product that you can take pride in and that others will enjoy. You want to make something that not only adds to the fannish sphere, but also adds something to the original source. There are a lot of people (outside of fandom) that don't think fanfic counts. It's not original! You're building on someone else's hard work! How dare you try and claim ownership over it! If a PTB tells you to stop writing fic, you have to or else it's stealing.
As a fanart, podfic and translations go through the same steps as fic does. As a podficer I spend a lot of time and effort on my podfics (for every minute of finished podfic, I spend a minimum of 5 minutes working on it. I average about 10 minutes of work for every finished minute but at times it's gotten as high as 20+ minutes. That 5 hour podfic? Probably took about 75 hours of work). I take pride in my podfics and I know others enjoy them. And yes, we add something to the story. If that weren't the case, you could just use a screen reader (or something like Google translation for translations). But the experience of podfic, it's not just words anymore, it's a performance, it's emotion. It adds to what the author has already put there. I know that there are podfics out there that I love, of fics that I had read and not actually liked that much (or as much as I love the podfic). The podficer was able to bring something that I didn't experience when I read it.
So to me, yeah, podfic is a new and separate fanwork. Having someone imply that podfic should still fall under the author's ownership... I feel they're missing what I'm doing, just as the people outside of fandom think that fanfic doesn't have any value. When an author expects equal or greater ownership of my podfic, well, to me, it would kind of be like JK Rowling announcing that she owns all the Harry Potter fanfic out there. I say kind of because that analogy doesn't take into account two things: 1. Depending on the copyright laws of the country involved, some fanfic has some legal protection which doesn't really apply when talking fic/podfic/translations. Also the degree of transformation varies far more between fic than it does for podfic. 2. It ignores the fact that the power dynamics are very different within fandom. I can ask the author for permission and get a response, where as I doubt JKR would even look at my request. Also, we can be a little more callous about TPTB because they aren't really part of our community. If I upset an author though, well, that's pissing off the neighbours and I'm going to have to deal with that. I don't want to get black listed among authors or to have someone posting on their flist about how evil I am and that podfic is bad. So, it's much better for me to work with an author then against them.
And that... makes it sound like I want to do horrible things or something. I'm not suggesting podficers start podficing stories without consulting the author or anything. And, god, if any of the authors I've worked with needed me to take down my podfic, I would in a heart beat because I do not want to fuck up someone's life. I would never deny that the author has some ownership over my podfic but I do think it's a matter of degree.
The situation that prompted this post was that I found out that an author was hosting the podfic I had made of her fic without my knowledge. I didn't actually have any problem with the how she was hosting it (it was only on her fannish website) however it did bother me that she hadn't told me. If I had a situation come up where I needed to take down my podfic I wouldn't know she had a copy of it. And there are additional privacy risks with podfic because it's harder to deny that you read and recorded something than it is to deny that you wrote something (although it's not impossible).
Also, a lot of the fears you have about opening up your fic to someone to podfic? We have about our podfics too. You mentioned worries over someone altering/selling/posting your works. We worry about that too. What if the author decides to get her fic published? What if they decide to sell the podfic as the story's audiobook? Or hell, even if they don't directly sell it, offer the audiobook as a "free" incentive to buy the book? What if the author decides to take on the legal fight for fanfic and uses her fic as an example (I've seen this happen a lot in the vidding community). Now that fic has a giant spotlight on it outside of fandom and there's a podfic that is being dragged into an increased outside awareness too. The chances of the podficer's boss/parents/religious leader/whomever finding their podfic have now gone way up. And because it's acknowledged that there's some shared ownership between the author and the podficer over the podfic, it would be expected for the podficer to bring the author into the loop of anything of that kind but the author still has complete control of their text version so, certainly in the last example, the author might not even consider consulting the podficer before just doing it.
So, yeah, podficers are dealing with the same fears and anxieties as authors, just maybe in different ways or from a different angle.
Is podfic (in your opinion, obviously opinions may vary) different from a voice recording or a piece? What is your definition of a "voice recording or a piece" I don't think I've heard those terms so I can't really comment to that part.
no subject
One of the things I'm struggling with, as a podficer, is this idea. Because, on the one hand, I don't want to scare authors away from letting us use their stories, on the other hand, I don't want to have someone go into this blindly and have to deal with the potential fall out later. In response to this post,
but as a writer am I missing the whole point?... The essence I'm getting out of the OP is that podfic should be treated as a separate fanwork based on my fanwork?
I think you're missing it a little?
Podfic is a lot like a translation but I don't think an author should have complete control over a translation either. I think...
When you write something, you put a lot of time and effort into it. You want to make a product that you can take pride in and that others will enjoy. You want to make something that not only adds to the fannish sphere, but also adds something to the original source.
There are a lot of people (outside of fandom) that don't think fanfic counts. It's not original! You're building on someone else's hard work! How dare you try and claim ownership over it! If a PTB tells you to stop writing fic, you have to or else it's stealing.
As a fanart, podfic and translations go through the same steps as fic does. As a podficer I spend a lot of time and effort on my podfics (for every minute of finished podfic, I spend a minimum of 5 minutes working on it. I average about 10 minutes of work for every finished minute but at times it's gotten as high as 20+ minutes. That 5 hour podfic? Probably took about 75 hours of work). I take pride in my podfics and I know others enjoy them. And yes, we add something to the story. If that weren't the case, you could just use a screen reader (or something like Google translation for translations). But the experience of podfic, it's not just words anymore, it's a performance, it's emotion. It adds to what the author has already put there. I know that there are podfics out there that I love, of fics that I had read and not actually liked that much (or as much as I love the podfic). The podficer was able to bring something that I didn't experience when I read it.
So to me, yeah, podfic is a new and separate fanwork. Having someone imply that podfic should still fall under the author's ownership... I feel they're missing what I'm doing, just as the people outside of fandom think that fanfic doesn't have any value. When an author expects equal or greater ownership of my podfic, well, to me, it would kind of be like JK Rowling announcing that she owns all the Harry Potter fanfic out there. I say kind of because that analogy doesn't take into account two things:
1. Depending on the copyright laws of the country involved, some fanfic has some legal protection which doesn't really apply when talking fic/podfic/translations. Also the degree of transformation varies far more between fic than it does for podfic.
2. It ignores the fact that the power dynamics are very different within fandom. I can ask the author for permission and get a response, where as I doubt JKR would even look at my request. Also, we can be a little more callous about TPTB because they aren't really part of our community. If I upset an author though, well, that's pissing off the neighbours and I'm going to have to deal with that. I don't want to get black listed among authors or to have someone posting on their flist about how evil I am and that podfic is bad. So, it's much better for me to work with an author then against them.
And that... makes it sound like I want to do horrible things or something. I'm not suggesting podficers start podficing stories without consulting the author or anything. And, god, if any of the authors I've worked with needed me to take down my podfic, I would in a heart beat because I do not want to fuck up someone's life. I would never deny that the author has some ownership over my podfic but I do think it's a matter of degree.
The situation that prompted this post was that I found out that an author was hosting the podfic I had made of her fic without my knowledge. I didn't actually have any problem with the how she was hosting it (it was only on her fannish website) however it did bother me that she hadn't told me. If I had a situation come up where I needed to take down my podfic I wouldn't know she had a copy of it. And there are additional privacy risks with podfic because it's harder to deny that you read and recorded something than it is to deny that you wrote something (although it's not impossible).
Also, a lot of the fears you have about opening up your fic to someone to podfic? We have about our podfics too. You mentioned worries over someone altering/selling/posting your works. We worry about that too. What if the author decides to get her fic published? What if they decide to sell the podfic as the story's audiobook? Or hell, even if they don't directly sell it, offer the audiobook as a "free" incentive to buy the book? What if the author decides to take on the legal fight for fanfic and uses her fic as an example (I've seen this happen a lot in the vidding community). Now that fic has a giant spotlight on it outside of fandom and there's a podfic that is being dragged into an increased outside awareness too. The chances of the podficer's boss/parents/religious leader/whomever finding their podfic have now gone way up. And because it's acknowledged that there's some shared ownership between the author and the podficer over the podfic, it would be expected for the podficer to bring the author into the loop of anything of that kind but the author still has complete control of their text version so, certainly in the last example, the author might not even consider consulting the podficer before just doing it.
So, yeah, podficers are dealing with the same fears and anxieties as authors, just maybe in different ways or from a different angle.
Is podfic (in your opinion, obviously opinions may vary) different from a voice recording or a piece?
What is your definition of a "voice recording or a piece" I don't think I've heard those terms so I can't really comment to that part.