paraka | *wow* Some people....

wow Some people....

OK, I was just quickly going through my flist, and came across this in the

sga_newsletter.

I couldn't bring myself to read all the comments, because come on. Being offended because people always make Atlantis a "her"? Get over it. If you just choose to see Atlantis as something they "dominate" then you're obviously not watching the same show I am. I mean they *love* their city. Rodney practically worships it.

Also, if you're offended over attributing genders to objects, never learn another language, because English is one of the only languages out there that doesn't do that to *every* object. Now I'm totally flashing back to French class when I'd struggle to remember whether a table is masculine or feminine.

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Some people seriously don't have enough drama in their lives, so they have to manufacture it by getting all bent out of shape over stupid shit like this. I think Opus called it "offensensitivity."

It's just... come on. I know that there are some things that really bother people, most people can recognise that it's stupid. Me for example. I get irrationally pissed off when people talk about "Canadian accents" because you know what? Most of the time, when listening to characters on TV, I can't tell the difference between Canadians and Americans unless they're doing a regional accent. And I see Americans go on and on about the Canadian accent and I just. don't. get it. But I don't go around making public posts about it, inviting wank about it, because I know it's dumb. And just because *I* don't hear it doesn't mean others don't/.

HAHA I was just saying to my husband yesterday that I don't quite understand the Canadian accent thing. Granted, the "I'm sorry" was a bit accented, but 99% of the time I don't notice any accent.

I don't know why, maybe I'm not as cynical as I think I am, or else I'm just too lazy to get worked up like the rest, but I don't understand a lot of what people get so upset about. I don't see how referring to cities/machines as female is offensive/misogynistic, any more than I saw the nanites in Weir as being that way. I didn't think that making Ronon a coffeeshop owner in an AU was racist, either, but evidently some people sure the hell did.

The way I see it, this world has enough genuine issues to worry about. No sense in manufacturing wank that isn't necessary.

99% of the time I don't notice any accent.
Me too. Except when I actually talk to Americans. America has a lot more regional dialects than Canada, and watching TV where they aren't displayed as prominently I sometimes forget. Then I'll take a trip down, or actually *talk* (as in listen to them speak) to some of the people on my flist and rememeber.

maybe I'm not as cynical as I think I am, or else I'm just too lazy to get worked up like the rest, but I don't understand a lot of what people get so upset about.
I personally think I'm maybe a little more cynical, because to me, it's like, the world isn't perfect, it's never going to *be* prefect, so why are you making such a big deal out of something that probably isn't going to change, and isn't really all that insulting to begin with.

I don't see how referring to cities/machines as female is offensive/misogynistic, any more than I saw the nanites in Weir as being that way.
People thought that the nanites in Weir were misogynistic? What?

The way I see it, this world has enough genuine issues to worry about. No sense in manufacturing wank that isn't necessary
I suppose the argument to that is that the issues brought up in fandom are a reflection of the genuine issues in the real world, but honestly? A lot of the time I don't care, or it comes off making things sound petty rather than convey the real problem.

There was a post in

technosage's LJ about how the nanites in Weir could be seen as subjugating women or something like that. Most of the time I agree with her meta, but this was so whu? to me that I knew I wouldn't agree with her so I just sort of stopped reading it.

I think people just read too damn much into things. Almost anything can be turned into an "--ist" issue if you really want to make it that way. Crying misogynism/racism/phobia/etc. into every little thing is just so much wolf crying, and ends up making people not care about the truly relevant problems.

But anyway.

There was a post in technosage's LJ about how the nanites in Weir could be seen as subjugating women or something like that. Most of the time I agree with her meta, but this was so whu? to me that I knew I wouldn't agree with her so I just sort of stopped reading it.
Yeah, I just had to stop reading the post I mentioned, because I knew I'd never read it, and I have this habit of getting *really* into those kinds of things, where I have to read *every* comment, and *every* post and it eats up all my time, and makes me feel not-good (ie. angry, frustrated, *head desk*-y).

I think people just read too damn much into things. Almost anything can be turned into an "--ist" issue if you really want to make it that way.
I remember during the whole race debate someone saying that SGA is filled with really liberal people who are hard thinkers, but SGA as a fandom is so goofy and fun, that we don't really have anywhere to apply our "thinkiness" except on each other. And that statement rings true for me. I started off in the Queer as Folk fandom, and as you know, QaF is *full* of political issues. It was also airing in a time where those political issues were particularly relivant. I know that Canada was going through the debates over legalizing same sex marriages during it, as well as a few other countries. The US is still fighting for better homosexual rights. What are SGA fans going to fight for though? The exsistance of UFOs? No. Instead we have campaigns to bring characters back from the dead. :P Which is important to us, but doesn't really make us feel like we're making a social change. So fans nit pick over small things and each other.

One of the things that got me about the race debate was that it was nit picking over each other. If it had been about racism in the show I wouldn't have been able to argue against it all that much, but picking on fans, and trying to make sweping statements got my hackles up.

Crying misogynism/racism/phobia/etc. into every little thing is just so much wolf crying, and ends up making people not care about the truly relevant problems.
It also doesn't creat a very welcoming place to be, because people feel that as soon as you cry *insert ism* that if you're a good liberal thinking fan, that you have to agree, because isms are *bad*. It gives those making the ism statements a lot of power. For example during the race debate, I made a post about how I thought we were mislabeling the problem, and because I wasn't loudly proclaiming that racisim is bad, and bad fandom for thinking otherwise, I was cast in a negative light. It hurt, and also? It made me never want to post thoughts on matters like this again. So all it did was stop talking for certain people, ostrasize others, and generally leave hurt feelings *everywhere*.

I couldn't bring myself to read all the comments

Pity, I thought the last one by

libitina was quite good:

"Atlantis is a woman. It is not a he or an it, but always, always a she." Which is weird since I clearly saw the other night that it was wearing a condom.

^_^

OMG That cracked me up. :P

Hmm, I read that earlier and agreed with much of it. But this:

never learn another language, because English is one of the only languages out there that doesn't do that to *every* object.

is a really good point, one that I hadn't even thought of. Hmm.

I tried to leave a comment to the original poster, but she doesn't allow them by people not on her flist... whatever.

I just asked at work, and in French at least, cities and ships are feminin. As are tables and other random things. And I certainly don't beleive that people applied the gender out of any sort of malice, and accusing fans of being careless? I mean we *love* Atlantis, is it weird that we'd apply our own pronoun to it (speaking for the female part of fandom at least)?

That whole argument to me is making mountians out of mole hills.

Huh. I thought ships were usually given a feminine prounoun when genderised. :S

I mean, like the poster said, ships and stuff are generally considered feminine in nature (and there are things that are masculine in nature, but seeing as ships are the only thing I remember the gender of, I can't give an example). Atlantis is a ship. Thus usually, Atlantis is female, even if it's not described as sentient. I don't think it's a conscious effort or some kind of slight, but there's nothing wrong in deciding to make Atlantis male. ^.^

Beyond ships being considered feminin, cities are too (at least in French).

Oh, for the love of Pete (whoops, I'm sorry -- Elsa. Look at me, being antifeminist right from the beginning)! Not all conventions are created strictly to keep someone down. If people referred to the city as a man, some people would be just as angry and arguing the issue from the other side -- she's nurtuing! She's a mother! Why do people insist on stripping the city of her power? Etc., etc.

Also, the OP mentioned how jarring it was that she read anthropomorphizing of the city but never saw it on the show. I remember quite clearly John calling her "old girl" last season. Clearly, it's all his fault. John is The Man.

Not all conventions are created strictly to keep someone down.
Exactly. And you're right, I'm sure John has referred to the city as a girl at least once in the show. It's just... that's what people do. And when it comes to offensive behaviour, anthropomorphizing is so low down on the list, that it seems pointless to address it.

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wow Some people....

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Would it make more sense if ze were a genderqueer flying city?

Re: Would it make more sense if ze were a genderqueer flying city?