Unpopular fannish opinion

[paraka]

So, I have an unpopular fannish opinion, and unlike the last one I had, I don't think I can keep this one private.

For those that don't already know, Adam Lambert was arrested last night. He and his boyfriend got into a fight at a bar, and when people tried to get between them, some of them got hurt. The police were called and Adam and Suali (his boyfriend) were arrested.

They spent some time in jail before being released in the morning. Adam tweeted: "Jetlag+Vodka=blackout. Us÷blackout=irrational confusion. jail+guilt+press=lesson learned. Sauli+Adam+hangover burgers= laughing bout it. : )" to explain what happened.

I followed all of this on Twitter, where most of my feed has been pretty supportive of Adam if they were commenting in any detail on the event.

shshpd made a series of tweets, however, which a retweeted:
Honestly, the way some people are minimizing this... it's so typical of the way DV is often minimized. "They were just wrestling..."...
... "We're laughing about it now..." "He hit her 'accidentally' when she tried to intervene." "Love is hard." It all disturbs me.
I realize we don't really know what actually happened, but I find the language disturbing.

When, in response to my RTing those, someone said that we (shshpd and I) should wait for evidence before accusing Adam of domestic violence, well, I got into a conversation that is too complex for 140 characters, so I'm moving it here.

I didn't RT those tweets as an accusation towards Adam, I RTed them because I agreed with the last one. We don't know what happened but the way people are talking about it is disturbing. There's a greater history at play here of society's acceptance/casual dismissal of domestic violence. As I said on twitter, there's a difference between saying "let's wait for evidence" and "whatever, it's not that bad, it's no big deal."

And having people act like poor Adam has to deal with this thing that the media is blowing out of proportion... I'm sorry, no.

If you get into a fight with your partner that's so bad you get arrested, that people get hurt, even accidentally, I'm sorry, you deserve to take some heat from that, I don't care who you are. Yeah the heat is worse because Adam's a celeb, but because he's a celeb people are also more likely to defend him and dismiss his actions too.

Regardless of whether Adam committed domestic violence, his actions, as reported, reflect domestic violence. And just waving a hand saying "oh, no, don't worry, nothing bad happened" perpetuates a history of domestic, puts people who are in actual situations of domestic violence in a harder place to get out of.

And, on a personal level, I find these dismissive attitudes triggery. Just because an action is an aberration from the norm and is forgiven, doesn't negate the nature of the action, nor its connection to a greater societal history of actions. Because let me tell you, from personal experience even, that being told "oh, it's not that bad, and just think! Some people have to deal with this kind of anger and violence all the time! They're the real ones we should feel sorry for" isn't really comforting.

And dismissing an action as a one off accident or being unwilling to recognize the similarity between those actions and a history of greater abuse just allows for that greater abuse to continue outside the specific circumstances (how many times does an abuser get away with their actions by claiming their actions were an aberration? By saying that nothing happened, by having others say it's no big deal?).

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know what actually happened between Adam, Sauli and the others who got involved in the whole fight. I can't comment on all that. But I have been watching parts of fandom react to the news. I've seen the dismissive language/attitudes being expressed and I can and will comment on that.

And with that, I'm gonna go back to podficcing.

ETA: Adam just tweeted "Violence is not to be taken lightly. Embarrassed by drunkenness. No punches thrown, no injuries and no charges. Media always exaggerates." So I'll take him at his word and assume the media did exaggerate what happened greatly. But I still stand by my comments and that I dislike the silencing/shaming of voices I saw occurring when the information we had said otherwise.

Comments

[kabal42]

Hm. That is interesting and from the way you present it I'd say I agree with you. Language use matters and talking about things that are potentially serious in a dismissive manner is not a good thing.

Disclosure: prior to this post, I've only heard of the incident from 1(!!!) person's twitter - from which I got the impression it was drunk and disorderly, not a fight. Though to be fair, that was early in the day, before any real reports had surfaced, I believe.

[paraka]

I've seen hugely varied ways of describing what happened. From some media outlets heavily implying that Adam was abusing Sauli, to people saying, as you saw, that it was a drunken disorderly as you saw.

The people that were involved have tried to downplay it, there aren't any changes being laid and no one seems to have any hard feelings about it. And honestly, both Adam and Sauli were arrested, so I honestly don't think Adam is out there beating him or anything.

But by Adam's own admission, this was brought on by "irrational confusion" and alcohol. He lost control, got in a fight and people did get hurt. And I can't help but think that Adam used "irrational confusion" as a euphemism for "irrational jealousy" (although, I admit, that's probably a leap) and if it that's the case....

But regardless of what actually happened, if Adam's actions are triggering reactions from people, I think it should be perfectly valid for people to discuss those reactions. There's too much of a history of silence around domestic abuse, around abuse in general. And being told to stop talking about, even without accusations flying, just contributes to that history of silence.

I don't know, maybe I'm just being too sensitive because this whole thing is triggery for me but since it is triggery, I feel like I should be able to talk about it.

[choosetolive]

Well, I'm the person in question that suggested evidence should be presented before Adam be accused of domestic violence.

There's several reasons why I feel the topic is worth defending, and I'm not gonna lie, preventing Adam's character from being further tainted is one of them. But also among them is retaining the integrity of the term "domestic violence".

Domestic violence is a very serious thing that occurs far too often in society. There's no doubt about it. It should be taken seriously and excuses should not be made for people who commit it.

What I reacted to, however, was (paraka retweeting) shshpd tweeting the following:

Honestly, the way some people are minimizing this... it's so typical of the way DV is often minimized. "They were just wrestling..."...

... "We're laughing about it now..." "He hit her 'accidentally' when she tried to intervene." "Love is hard." It all disturbs me.

I realize we don't really know what actually happened, but I find the language disturbing.

The "some people" being quoted here are, originally, Adam, Sauli, and their friends who were eyewitnesses. Thus, the insinuation is that these people are "minimizing domestic violence" with their choice of words.

Now, I wasn't with these people either, so I certainly can't claim to know what actually happened. But as someone who followed the story reasonably closely this morning, the consistent points in the story have been as follows: Adam and Sauli got in a verbal argument while (very) drunk. The argument got somewhat physical ("wrestling", whatever that means. All non-tabloid parties - including the police - say no punches were thrown. I'm of the opinion this translates to pushing/pulling/shoving). A friend attempted to get between them and was struck by Adam. She states that it was accidental and incidental, and there's been nothing to contradict that statement. Given the nature of drunken arguments and the amount of flailing that can be involved, I see no reason to disbelieve her. She's Sauli's friend's girlfriend, and of those present has the least reason to side with Adam if choosing sides were necessary. The police arrived, Adam and Sauli were separated, held for a few hours (to sober up, I imagine), questioned and released.

No punches were thrown, no injuries were reported, and no charges were filed.

This does not at all, in my opinion, fit a criteria of domestic violence.

As a result, I don't believe their descriptions of the events are "minimizing domestic violence." That is because this is not an example of domestic violence, nor do I want to see this painted as such. First, it takes away from what domestic violence actually *is*. Second, it saddles Adam with a reputation as a systematic abuser which, to all evidence, couldn't be further from the truth.

Now, Adam and Sauli's behavior was irresponsible, they've clearly got some stuff to work through, they should be held accountable for any and all wrong they've done. Hopefully they'll learn from this experience and behave more responsibly in the future. They shouldn't get a free pass from the media. But it appears like all of that is happening. And I see no need to add to the embarrassment by painting Adam with a reputation he doesn't deserve, especially when it would distract and detract from true cases of domestic abuse (Chris Brown, anybody?).

That said, I don't wish to discourage awareness of domestic violence or foster any kind of societal immunity to it. But this began as a Twitter conversation, and my interest was/is in not seeing Adam portrayed as an abuser that he isn't under the guise of furthering a social awareness of said abuse. That hurts ADAM, and by extension, Sauli. Two real people who did something stupid, but don't deserve to be labeled as abuser/victim by the media or the fanbase when it truly doesn't seem to apply.


Oh - had to leave in the middle of composing this and came back to see the ETA. Part of why I also reacted the way I did is because I had all this information, with the exception of Adam's latest tweet (copied in the ETA), by the time said RT's were on my feed. I'd already watched the dust settle and parsed out what was exaggeration and what was not. All that information was available. Which is why I had no problem saying that these concerns about domestic violence did not apply to Adam and Sauli's case, and disliked that someone would suggest as much.

[connorblond]

NO, violence should not be taken lightly. Same goes for drunkenness.
However - I think this was completely blown out of proportion. And let's face it, sometimes guys fight that way. Is it okay? Probably not. But it happens.
For me this has nothing to do with domestic violence, but a fight in public that got out of hand. Nobody was hurt in the process.

And dismissing an action as a one off accident or being unwilling to recognize the similarity between those actions and a history of greater abuse just allows for that greater abuse to continue outside the specific circumstances
I think it's a matter of our own experiences how we react to this. Assuming an action like that is always connected to greater abuse is - IMHO - problematic and often not fitting. However, I get your point and trying to shut it down is not the way to go.

[kabal42]

Bottom line is, not matter what happened, you are totally entitled to talk about it - even more so because of the trigger issues! You are right that silencing by shaming is not a good thing at all. Fair enough if more evidence comes to light and all can say 'whew, ok, it was nothing but media feeding frenzy'. That's quite another matter. The language you mention here is problematic - and that's all right to talk about in and of itself, regardless of the facts.