paraka | Numb3rs

Numb3rs

Ok, first off, I want to wish

geeklite a belated birthday. I so meant to make this post last night, but I fell asleep. :-/ I hope you had an amazing day!

Next, I know I'm totally late on this, but I want to talk about Colby and the Janus list.

Gah! This was such an amazing episode! When I finished watching that episode I realized that that was one of the most effective season finales I've ever seen. I can only think of one other season finale like it (The Buffy one where she killed Angel). It wasn't quite a cliffhanger, because the problem was resolved, but it just left everything so broken. I can't wait until the new season starts. *whines* I'm going to be spending waaayyyy too much time thinking about this ep. Also I was really impressed by this ender, because the finale for season 2 sucked so, so much. I'm glad they were able o make this one much more interesting.

The thing is, not for one minute did I actually believe Colby's been a spy for 2 years. I have a feeling he was probably pulled in by the Americans when they discovered Dwayne, because:
1) What are the chances they both happened to work for the Chinese. I mean of all the governments out there... It would be more likely if it were a Middle Eastern government, because at least they both fought over there, but the Chinese? I mean we know how Dwayne got involved, but Colby? His only connection is Dwayne.

2) If Colby was a spy on the same side as Dwayne they had some mighty weird private conversations. And Colby's must be a pretty good actor to look so surprised and hurt over Dwayne being a traitor. I mean honestly, if they both knew (and if it were true I can't believe they wouldn't at the very least have suspicions) they might not have come right out with their secret traitor hand shake, but I think they probably would have spoken in a few more double entendre's.

3) If Dwayne *knew* that Colby was a turn coat, I think he would have turned him in when Colby cornered him. He was so upset and angry when it happened I can't believe he wouldn't lash out. I mean, I know he knew by this episode, but I bet he probably learned while imprisoned and decided to sit on it, because he was calmer and already caught, he knew he'd have to use that info to his advantage, but I doubt he'd be thinking that clearly when he was first arrested.

Edit: Obviously there are spoilers in this post and the comments for Janus List. In the comments though we now have some vague cast spoilers for season 4 (of both Numb3rs and SGA). Please don't spoil me people. I can't handle it! (Ok, I *can* but it'll piss me off). If you *are* looking for spoilers for season 4 there's a link in the comments to somewhere where you can find more info.

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I realized that that was one of the most effective season finales I've ever seen
I totally agree. I sat there with my mouth open, because I just couldn't believe what I saw. Colby a traitor? That can't be true. There are only little to no chances that both were working for the Chinese. There's definitely more behind this whole thing. Looking forward to the new season to see what it is.
David looked so crushed when he found out. Poor him.

spikedluv and I have been batting theories back and forth for the last 5 days or so, and are still refining our positions... *g*

Have a look here, which is the main thread where we've really got going: http://spikedluv.livejournal.com/323071.html?thread=4224511#t4224511

I'm still of the opinion that Colby was aimed purposely at Dwayne Carter a long time ago, and has been reeling him in ever since. Then Ashby wandered onto the scene and everything went to hell...

spikedluv has a few links to season 4 spoilers in the thread too. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts! As long as TPTB don't do an SGA and bite off far more than they can chew, season 4 should be veddy veddy interesting... *g*

I didn't believe for a single moment that Colby was a traitor (he confessed waayyyy to quickly. Think of that other guy that hesitated even though he knew people were going to *die* if he didn't say anything), what surprised me was the amount of people on this one list I'm on who *did* believe it.

Another thing, now that I think about it, is that I'm pretty sure Colby knew he was going to be caught soon because he kept making all these statements like "Don't you trust me?" and the family thing he said to David, about how all he had was serving his country. I don't think he was saying those things to try and cover, I think he was saying those things to remind them, and so that they'd really think about is character when the shit hit the fan. So that they'd remember where his true loyalties lay.

Crap, I pressed post by accident.

David looked so crushed when he found out. Poor him.
OMG he was *crying*! Are you a slasher? Because I've slashed David and Colby for a while now, but that moment just *made* them for me. Oh god. I think it's going to take David a while to get over this, even if/when it comes to light that Colby was never a traitor. I think David will feel betrayed regardless because Colby never confided in him.

I didn't believe for a single moment that Colby was a traitor
I only did believe it in the very first second, because I was in shock. But it's true, he confessed too quickly. And all the things he said, especially when talking with Megan... And you could see through all the episodes that he likes being part of the team.

No, I'm not really a slasher, but if I were I definitely would slash David/Colby. They're just great together. And I agree, it'll take some time till David get over it. But Don probably too. More therapy sessions to come. ;D

Hmm, I'll have to go check that thread out (but not the spoilers, I'm a total spoiler avoider).

I'm still of the opinion that Colby was aimed purposely at Dwayne Carter a long time ago, and has been reeling him in ever since. Then Ashby wandered onto the scene and everything went to hell...
I'm not sure. I think they probably planted Colby after they caught Dwayne. And I kind of got the impression (looking back) that for most of the episode Colby knew he was going to be caught. He kept making statements about trust and loyalty. I don't think he was saying those things to hide what he was doing, I think he was doing it to try and remind his friends of his personality and loyalties so that when the shit *did* hit the fan they'd could think back and realize that this traitor idea is totally out of his character. He also acted kind of sloppily. I mean running off with the girl? And he confessed waayyy to quickly. I mean, Don was acting like a hard ass, but I think if he kept professing his innocence they'd all have more time for their doubts to surface. I mean other than Ashby, and the mistake made with Dwayne there was nothing to tie Colby in with the Chinese. And seriously, the mistake with Dwayne can easily be explained by misplaced loyalty, and Ashby was going to blow up a bridge, can he really be trusted? No Colby confessed quickly because he wanted/needed/was ordered to be caught.

Maybe Ashby was in on it and helped Colby get caught so he could go under cover, or maybe Ashby forced Colby's (and his PTB) hand and made him come out to stay under, I'm not sure.

As long as TPTB don't do an SGA and bite off far more than they can chew, season 4 should be veddy veddy interesting... *g*
I actually have a lot of trust that the Numb3rs PTB will be able to handle this. SGA is a show built on arcs. They *have* to have an ongoing bad guy, it just doesn't work if they have a new one each episode. Numb3rs on the other hand is built perfectly to handle a new bad guy every episode. I have a feeling that the Colby-as-a-spy story line isn't going to be a *direct* story arc for the whole season. By direct I mean, I'm guessing that they're going to tie the lose ends up in 2 or 3 episodes. Maybe they'll have a few eps that don't focus on Colby but show snap shots of him and his situation, or maybe the season opener will deal with it right away, but I have a feeling that when they do *really* address it, it won't take that long to wrap up.

Now I say it won't be a *direct* story arc for the whole season, but I have a feeling (at least if the Numb3rs writers play it right) it'll keep coming up all season, but it'll be more from an emotional standpoint. Like I don't think David will forgive Colby right away. Did you see how upset he was? Even if/when it comes out that Colby's been on the good side the whole time, I think David is going to be upset that Colby didn't trust him enough to tell him. Even if logically he knows Colby couldn't have, they'll still be an emotional side of him that can't handle it (why yes I *am* a Colby/David shipper :P). And Don already had some trust issues going on with Colby, I think he'll probably be wondering just who Colby's working for, who he's loyal to, who's orders will he follow. And Megan? Well it seems she came back from her other mission really burned out. She may not be able to handle the thought of such duplicitous actions going on in her team, her little work family.

Anyways, I'm going to stop here. This is the danger of saying "I'd love to hear more of your thoughts!" :P

Yeah, I don't think he wants to be in that position. Maybe there was a lot of pressure put on him ("You're the only one who can do it!") or he let his patriotism sway him (as he said, serving his country was really the only thought he had when looking for a career, it was bred into him). The thing is, Colby has always come across as an honest guy, I'd imagine that all this cloak and dagger stuff would be hard on him.

Oh god, probably my favourite David/Colby moment before this ep was when they were at that Chinese stripper joint and Colby says something like "God, we're the only white guys here" and David's liek " o_O; ...yeah...." They just play off each other so well.

Don on the other hand. I mean Don's my favourite, he's really the guy I watch the show for, but so often he'll surprise me. Most of the time he's this great hard working guy who loves his job and family, but other times? He's a complete ass hole. All of his actions toward Colby this episode seemed so wrong to me. I mean he didn't hesitate to think of Colby as a traitor. And at the end of the show, not one word about Colby or his deception, instead the Eps were all upset about this agent that time will forget? That doesn't fly with me. My presonal theory at the moment (I have a lot of them if you didn't notice? :P Me? Spending too much time thinking about this episode? No!) is that Don knew about Colby being a double agent, and he knows that Colby's on the good side. That's why he was acting like an ass hole, that's why he wasn't upset. Although I must admit, of all my theories, in my heart I have a feeling that this is wrong, because the writers have written Don as an asshole before with no troubles. I really *want* this theory to be true though...

I can imagine that both might be true.

Colby has always come across as an honest guy
I thought so too.

He really, really has. I mean all of the other characters have some secrets and whatnot, but not Colby before now. I mean the Eppes brothers have their whole past and troubled relationship. Megan has always come off, to me at least, as having more going on with her than what we see on the surface. She's a very private person. And we know that there's something going on with her and her Dad. David, Don originally had trouble accepting him, because he was sent in to keep an eye on Don (he was from another department or something like that) and we know that his childhood wasn't the easiest. We got glimpses in that ep with the almost 30 year old posing as a student from the ghetto, or that ep with all the gangster violence, or the school shooting ep.

But Colby, other than a few mentions of Afganistan...I suppose there was that ep where he talked about killing people with "friendly fire" (I *hate* that term :S) and the Dwayne ep. But Colby has always been forthcoming with his feelings, emotions and hesitancies, that it's really hard to imagine that he'd be able to successfully be a spy for China.

God, I think I've hit the point of over-analyzing.

that Don knew about Colby being a double agent
You know what? I had that thought too in the very beginning, when I thought about the first episode with Dwayne. Butbthen I abandoned it for some reason. My theory for Don being an asshole was that he was mad at himself for trusting Colby after the first Dwayne incident. But I like the first theory better.

and Colby says something like "God, we're the only white guys here" and David's liek " o_O; ...yeah...."
That scene was so great. But I also love their little jokes that always Colby ends up chasing after the suspects. :D

I always had hoped that we would learn more about Colby. We nearly know anything about him. Only some bits about Afghanistan as you said before. But we hopefully will get something in the next season.

but not the spoilers, I'm a total spoiler avoider
I normally stay spoiler-free too, but I had to go there and read the cast spoilers.

I could see it going either way. It just gets me sometimes when the writers aren't consistent with Don's character, because there have been a few times where Don has done something that makes me not like him, and then he goes back to being nice Don, and the just don't seem to mesh in my mind. Runon sentence much? :P

And Colby is so great. I find it funny that he was the one doing all the running across town in that Don-at-the-psychiatrist ep when he's the one always complaining about running. Did he in one ep tell a perp that he'd shoot him in the back, and then once he got cuffs on him he goes, "I wouldn't realle have, I just didn't feel like running today" :P Oh Colby. I think I'm going to have to "force" myself to sit through all the eps with Colby in it, and come up with a list of Best Colby Lines. :D

Yeah, I think this is the first time he's ever mentioned his family before.

I found it funny, because on one of the Numb3rs lists I'm on they had this huge debate as to what was the driving force behind the show, Math or the characters. And a lot of people came out on both sides, but to me, it's totally the characters. The math is what makes Numb3rs different from other crime shows, just like CSI is about the forensics, or Law and Order SVU is about sex crimes. But the thing that makes me obsess about Numb3rs and not those other shows (both of which I watch and enjoy when I stumble across them, but won't seek out) is the characters. People love the family interactions, we grow attached to the characters. If this were just a show about math? Well I might watch it, but only if I were flicking through the channels and it was on, I certainly wouldn't arrange my schedule around making sure I can see it asap!

Notice how I can make the longest most rambley replies to the shortest of comments? I must be in a talky mood today.

Ok, I will admit, I read the cast spoilers. Mostly because on one of the lists I'm on people talked about them and didn't mark it as spoilers, but I'm ok with knowing that. I would probably be pissed if it was bad news, but as it is, I'm perfectly happy knowing them now. SGA cast spoilers on the other hand pissed me off to no end. :S

because there have been a few times where Don has done something that makes me not like him
Yes, there have been some things that I didn't like either. But it would be boring if we only see nice!Don.

"I wouldn't realle have, I just didn't feel like running today"
I saw that episode recently and was all LMAO. I love his humour. I need to finish my re-watching of all episodes. 30 episodes left. And writing down Colby quotes is a cool idea. I should do that too. I had a lot of fun making notes for Northern Exposure.

I didn't read any SGA cast spoilers. But at some point in season 3 I wished I had read them. But I don't know anything for season 4 yet.

Notice how I can make the longest most rambley replies to the shortest of comments? I must be in a talky mood today.
That is absolutely okay. I'm glad you're in a talky mood, because I was kind of bored. But sometimes I have trouble to find the write words in English and can't write what I want to and end up writing less...

I started watching Numb3rs because it seemed different to me with the mathematical approach, but realized soon that it has wonderful characters (the Eppes family!). From the first season I especially liked the episode with Kim, because we got to know lots about Don (and we saw his appartment!). Then I saw one episode of season 2 and fell instantly in love with Colby and Megan and decided that I need to watch the whole season. Both, Megan and Colby fit so good into the team. I always liked that Megan tried to get into the math stuff while Colby always gave up after some seconds. :D

Yeah, I think this is the first time he's ever mentioned his family before.
Yes, it was!

I'm just watching ep. 2x17 and Colby just spoke Spanish. And it didn't sound bad at all. %hearts; It's the same episode we learn the things about Megan's family.

That's a great take on Colby, that he was doing his best to remind the team what kind of guy he really is. And like you, I was surprised they bought it all so quickly. I can't even begin to take a stab at how long this has been going on, etc. because I'm horrible with remembering canon, but they really jumped on the bandwagon far too quickly. Colby's always gone out of his way to see the best in his teammates, and I'd love to see the fallout of them not doing the same for him.

I'm glad you're in a talky mood, because I was kind of bored.
Oh god, and as soon as you say that, I leave for hours. I'm sorry, I had to go out. And as far as the language stuff goes, all I can say is I have the utmost respect for you and your language skills, I've tried learning other languages, and I really wish I had kept my French up, because now there is *no*way* I could hold a conversation in it. I really wish I could, but sometimes I have enough trouble just with English, I totally can't handle another language. :P

I started watching Numb3rs because it seemed different to me with the mathematical approach, but realized soon that it has wonderful characters (the Eppes family!).
I started watching it because my mom and sister fell in love with it (based mostly on the hotness factor of Charlie, which, not actually my cup of tea, but whatever). I watched the first season was kind of meh about it (I liked it but, well, I'll admit, I'm pretty much just a slasher, and it's hard for me to get into a fandom without a pairing, and the only slashable relationships in season one were Larry/Charlie, which didn't work for me at. all. Or Don/Charlie, and the whole incest thing bothered me. Funny, I seem to have gotten over that now. Oh fandom, how you hold a magnet to my moral compass.) After season 2 I got into the fandom a little, and come season three, I wasn't so deep into the fandom, but I was really interested in the show.

I always liked that Megan tried to get into the math stuff while Colby always gave up after some seconds. :D
I was talking with someone else about that, and how it's funny since Dylan Bruno has an Engineering degree from MIT so it's probably not totally beyond the actors understanding. Meanwhile David Krumholtz talks about how he almost failed high school because he had so much trouble passing math.

God, unlike that art theft ep where Don totally butchers the name of the French painting and Davids like "You speak French?" and Don acts all humble. You could hear the sound of my head hitting my desk for miles around. :P

Yes, there have been some things that I didn't like either. But it would be boring if we only see nice!Don.
But the thing is, I feel like you could have a not nice!Don without making him so... out of character. I mean, sometimes he's not nice, like when he had Ian punch that kid in 302 to try and save Megan. That I could work with, it give Don a dark edge, it makes him less than perfect. That didn't actually bother me that much, because I can see it in his character. The times that really bug me though, is when he's mean to those he cares about. I mean I know everyone has bad days and what not, but there are sometimes when he's a downright bastard to Charlie. Or how he felt nothing to discover that Colby was a traitor. I mean, *I'd* be hurt if I found out the lunch lady at my work was a traitor, and I hard ever speak to her, but someone I've trusted with my life (and in their line of work, you know that kind of trust has to be there)? That kind of betrayal *has* to leave something. Maybe make you question the loyalty of the others, maybe make him even worse for shouldering all the burdens. I hope to *god* that they have something in season 4 that covers this. Either that Don was in on it, or some kind of issues that pop up, because otherwise it's just not consistent.

I saw that episode recently and was all LMAO. I love his humour.
He's such a classic straight man. I mean, I think it'd be fun to see the blooper reels, since I know I'd have trouble saying some of those lines with a straight face. But he generally looks so serious when he says these things it just makes if even more funny.

And writing down Colby quotes is a cool idea. I should do that too.
Run with it, run like the wind! Because knowing me, I wont ever actually get around to it :P

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