Question

[paraka]

So, I've spent most of the day reading up on what people are saying about the OTW are saying. Mostly from non-fandom people, and it's kind of making me want to shoot things, but I was wondering:

What do you think about the OTW? Would you like an archive? A written fannish history? A wiki (OMG, I can't tell you how much I'd like a wiki for fandom, although I can see it being vandalized a lot)? Do you think it's a good idea to have a legal defense fund? If the OTW were ever to go to court, would you support them?

I'm planning on making a post sometime about how I feel about it, but I'm really curious as to what other people on my flist think about it. I think so far only one person on my flist has really written about it, but I spent a couple months away so could have totally missed something.

Also, I am having a bitch of a time working on a mysql database, any one know enough about setting up eFiction to want to help?

Comments

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

No help on eFiction, I'm afraid! But my thoughts on OTW, I can show you them!

I've said this around a little bit - mostly, I'm ambivalent about OTW. I understand the reasoning behind the project, and I definitely understand the argument about women's work being undervalued, and exploited, and the way that an OTW archive is a counter to to such potential exploitation. I appreciate their recognition of fandom diversity and the 'community' nature of much of fandom; I also appreciate their apparent transparency.

However, I am uninterested in fandom and academia, and I don't feel the need to access a central archive at the moment. This might change - as I said, I'm ambivalent, and I would prefer to see how things unfold over time.

With regards to the legal defense fund - I don't know. Part of this, I feel, is about legitimising fanworks (although I don't think they actually use the term legitimising), and I've never felt the urge to have fandom - which is a hobby to me - viewed as 'legitimate' on a societal level (but I'm not saying that fandom is something to be ashamed about/kept secret either).

The wiki project could be interesting/useful.

Basically, I don't find that OTW 'speaks' to me at this point in time. But I get the sense that it is coming (at least, in part) from a section of fandom that I've never really had a lot to do with. I think that the discussions around OTW demonstrates that there is a lot of diversity in fandom, which is something that I like.

I should also say that I do not enjoy seeing the really nasty responses to OTW - I think some people need to realise that even if it's not for them, they don't have to get vicious about it -- instead, they should get over it, and accept that because fandom is so diverse, OTW will work for some people, not work for others, and leave others still with mixed feelings.

OTW Part 1

[paraka]

No help on eFiction, I'm afraid! But my thoughts on OTW, I can show you them!
That's ok, I was really more interested in your thoughts anyway :)

I definitely understand the argument about women's work being undervalued, and exploited, and the way that an OTW archive is a counter to to such potential exploitation.
I haven't actually run across that much on the "Women's" side of this, mstly I've read stuff from the view of outsiders looking in on fandom, which is very teeth-gritty. Do you have links to any of these discussions? I'll admit, I was kind of surprised to see that they were saying fandom is mostly women. I don't necessarily agree that *fandom* is mostly women, but will concede that the fanfic aspect is mostly women.

However, I am uninterested in fandom and academia, and I don't feel the need to access a central archive at the moment.
Yeah, I'm not sure about the academia bit. I *like* how think-y fandom is, but sometimes we're a little too high-brow, especially when our common interest is squeeing over hot space heroes fighting alien vampires and robots.
As for the archive, I'm kinda meh about it. Sometimes I'm really excited about it, but other times I think about it and realize I probably won't use it that much. At least not while I'm in big fandoms like SGA where I have a 40 page to-read list of stuff I got off of my flist alone.
On the one hand, it would be nice to have a central archive that isn't neutered like ff.net is (if they had any more rules about what can and cannot be posted they wouldn't have any fic), but archives are notorious for having a lot of bad fic. On the other hand, it's nice to have a starting place that's well organized and has a large readership. Most of the people I know that post to ff.net do so because of the large readership, but still dislike the site. Also, if OTW is able to set up all that they want, it'll be a nice place for newbies to find first. Large multifandom archives are also nice if you get the sudden urge to read in an obscure fandom. *shrugs*

With regards to the legal defense fund - I don't know. Part of this, I feel, is about legitimising fanworks (although I don't think they actually use the term legitimising), and I've never felt the urge to have fandom - which is a hobby to me - viewed as 'legitimate' on a societal level
The legal defense fund is probably what I'm most excited about. I would hate it if suddenly TPTB decided to shut us down (and it has happened in the past). People spend so much time working on fandom, to have someone from the outside come in and say we can't makes me so angry. Also, to not have to worry about legal ramifications would be really nice. It would be nice to have an option other than roll over when TPTB come to tell us to.
But like you, I don't really care about what the outside thinks. In fact, I kind of like that not everyone knows what fandom is. I like being able to tell people that fandom is a hobby of mine, and not have them automatically think of bad explicit HP slash or other things that being put into the limelight would bring. I don't care if we're never acknowledged by mainstream culture, I just don't want to work in fandom with the fear of it being taken away from me.

Cont...

Re: OTW Part 1

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

I think your thoughts on OTW are very positive, which is really nice to read.

Also, to not have to worry about legal ramifications would be really nice. It would be nice to have an option other than roll over when TPTB come to tell us to.

Would the defense fund support the individual author? Or the right to write fanfiction? I would like to have more clarification, but I think at this point, we can't get that - and this is one of the reason that I haven't taken a firm stance on OTW - I like to wait and see. This doesn't just apply to OTW - it applies to my approach to life in general!

But, I do have to admit that I feel a little cynical about the legal defense fund, and the potential weight that it could reasonably be expected to have.

Re: discussions on OTW - I can't remember specific links at this point, because they've been things I've run across through flist, and sometimes metafandom. But, the list of metafandom links to OTW discussion is here:
http://del.icio.us/metafandom/otw

Re: OTW Part 1

[paraka]

I think your thoughts on OTW are very positive, which is really nice to read.
:P Maybe I'm just naive or haven't read enough about everything yet, but yeah, I'm positive about it. About the only downside I can see is if TPTB get freaked out by their legal stance, in which case, yeah things can go bad, but I don't think they're going to be lobbying to change anything, and instead are more going to do the research for a court battle now, and wait until they come to us, in which case, they've already come to us, so somethings going down already.

Would the defense fund support the individual author? Or the right to write fanfiction? I would like to have more clarification
Yeah, I just finished reading someones post saying that in the OTWs mission statements they only refer to fanworks, but I'd assume that if the fanwork isn't illegal, they can't attack the author (can they? I really don't know for sure). Also, I was just reading their site and they say This help will not be limited to those fans or projects directly connected with OTW. So yeah, my interpretation of that is, if *I* were to suddenly get in legal trouble for my fanworks, I can appeal to them for help, and they will at least consider helping me, regardless of whether the fanwork appears on their site or not.

I feel a little cynical about the legal defense fund, and the potential weight that it could reasonably be expected to have.
I do feel very strongly that the legal defense fund is a good thing. I'm not sure how good their argument about fair use is, but, if/when they go to court, I would support it, because I don't want to have to take this lying down. I think that if fandom got behind them, we could raise the money so that we're not forced out of court for money reasons, but actually, one of my concerns is that they might rely too much on volunteers for the court case. I know the board member who is a lawyer specializes in copy right, but still....

the list of metafandom links to OTW discussion is here
Cool! Thanks.

OTW Part 2

[paraka]

The wiki project could be interesting/useful.
After I made this post, I read that there is already one here. I haven't really looked at it yet, but I book marked it. I really hope that they have a lot of the fandom/net acronyms on it. I hate it when people say things like DJSIEC, and I have no friggin' clue what the heck they're talking about. It took me about a year to find out what OTP stood for, and for the longest time I thought FTW was a polite/sneaky way of saying WTF (since it's backwards). Sometimes the context just isn't enough.

I should also say that I do not enjoy seeing the really nasty responses to OTW - I think some people need to realise that even if it's not for them, they don't have to get vicious about it -- instead, they should get over it, and accept that because fandom is so diverse, OTW will work for some people, not work for others, and leave others still with mixed feelings
I think that stems from the fact that the OTW is trying to some extent to be a representative front. Even if it's acknowledged that they aren't within fandom, those outside fandom won't see it that way, and people are afraid of being misrepresented. The person that left the link to the wiki commented that:

OTW suffers from the fact that the majority (if not the entirety) of the upper level (board +committees), as well as most of the supporters, are coming from extremely similar fannish backgrounds. Female-dominated media-based fandom (I should note that not all fanwork-producing fandom is “media fandom”, many of those of us who write RPF reject that label) focused on LiveJournal.

Not that any of those are bad things. But the view and experiences at the core of OTW are a small fraction of overall fannish views and experiences, and as such they tend to misunderstand/misrepresent segments of fandom they’re not used to. Not necessarily with any ill intent - although I do question why their response to “this doesn’t apply to my experience” or “this excludes me” tends to be “no it’s not, because I say so” rather than an attempt to understand - but it happens all the same.

And so as someone who falls outside their comfort zone, I have one main issue: if, in advocating for legitimacy, they succeed only in legitimizing that which they are currently presenting as fandom, those who are misrepresented are still out in the cold.

I’m also troubled by their disregard for anything outside their paradigm; their contempt and/or ignorance of existing projects (I still have yet to get a good explanation why they intend to create a wiki, when one is already in existence, and fairly successful) has me thinking they are only out to legitimize fandom on their terms, done their way.

It was that comment that really made me make this post, because I kind of assumed that most of fandom either liked the idea or were indifferent to it. To see people complain about it...
Of course my response to this person is, if they don't think they're section of fandom is being represented, then join in and represent it.
Also, the OTW is fairly new and can only work on so many projects at once, but I think they'd be open to more once they get their first few things done.

Re: OTW Part 2

[hector-rashbaum.livejournal.com]

*waves* A friend pointed me to this post, I hope you don't mind me hopping into the discussion here :)

That comment you quoted was mine - I chose to use my real name rather than my fannish pseud to avoid gender confusion. And this:

Of course my response to this person is, if they don't think they're section of fandom is being represented, then join in and represent it.

Is a totally fair response. I actually have participated - I follow the community, I post comments when I have issues, I've written a couple metafandom-linked crit posts and welcomed discourse there. Which isn't to say "how dare you question my particpation, person who has no idea who I am", but just to point out that I do participate, and I'm not just running around bitching everywhere but to the people who could make changes based on my bitching :)

Also, the OTW is fairly new and can only work on so many projects at once, but I think they'd be open to more once they get their first few things done.<./i>

I totally get this, and my issue isn't so much with what they actually have/haven't done than with their attitude. And I should add my view of their attitude is perhaps unfairly colored by the amount of negative interactions I've had with non-"staff"(board/committee members) supporters when I've raised questions/criticisms.

But, to me, and to a few people I know, so far they've come across as very "we're going to do all these things the right way." Which I'm sure they're not doing on purpose, but...well, as an example, one of my very first problems with OTW was their announcement of a goal to create a fan history wiki, with no acknowledgement of one that already exists. And when I brought up the existing FanHistory wiki (http://www.fanhistory.com), the responses ranged from politely dismissive to downright vitriolic. And to see something I know has had hours and hours and hours of work put into it dismissed and insulted and heavily criticized (my favorites were the criticisms about incompleteness and factual error - it's a wiki, anyone is welcome to fix any error they find) and drug through the mud because it wasn't the right fan who owned it...I have a very hard time looking past that to see the good intentions.

I should point out I'm still not decided one way or the other how I feel about OTW. I think from a strictly marketing/PR standpoint they have a long way to go, I think they may be overambitious, I think they're treading in dangerous waters re: legal issues. But at the same time I think a lot of their issues stem from gaps in knowledge that anyone could be expected to have.

Time will tell if that "We'll do ___ the right way" attitude is a misconception, or a reality that will stand in the way of filling those gaps.

(/end butting in)

Re: OTW Part 2

[ana-grrl.livejournal.com]

I knew about the already existing wiki, and I can't say I've found it particularly useful/interesting - I think it really needs to be expanded, and there needs to be more momentum behind it. However, this may be a bias, because there are a lot of very popular fandoms (HP, Buffy, etc) that I have never had anything to do with, so it's possible that the wiki represents them better than it does the fandoms I am involved with. Interest in these kinds of things can vary widely within and between different fandoms.

Even if it's acknowledged that they aren't within fandom, those outside fandom won't see it that way, and people are afraid of being misrepresented.

Very possibly. But if this is the case, then I agree with you - rather than bitching about it, why not form alliances and make compromises (to me, this is what life is about)? But I think that fandom has always had a tendency to divide into camps (and this is not a fandom thing per se - it's a human thing) - just look at the wank that has been generated in SGA, for example, about pairings! - and it should be expected that some people will take very strong stances against any fandom endeavour ever, not just projects like OTW. This kind of diversity I respect, although I do not respect it when things get pointlessly nasty.

the OTW is fairly new and can only work on so many projects at once, but I think they'd be open to more once they get their first few things done.

I agree. I think it is unfair to expect many things from OTW right away. Like any project - fandom or otherwise - things get more complex and offer more breadth and depth over time.

[munchkinofdoom.livejournal.com]

If you haven't already done so, go have a look at metafandom for the last week. I just counted links to 10 different posts just from last Monday onward. Sunday 16th has almost that many just for the one day. There a particularly interesting post from the last couple of days from someone heavily involved with bandom for many years and it raises some intriguing questions about inclusiveness/exclusiveness and differing perceptions of RPF from the perspective of the differing legalities.

For myself, I'm probably ambivelant. For a project that was born from the concept of An Archive Of Our Own, it seems to have become somewhat mired in the legalities and academia of fandom rather than being a central contact point for new fanfic fans in order to keep them from the greedy mitts of Fan_Lib! *g*

I can understand the idea of wanting a defence fund, but the jury is still well out on whether we could actually win a case on Fair Use grounds and I'm not sure I want to find out for sure one way or the other.

Maybe it is because I'm an old school fanfic fan from the days of zines, but I'd much rather stay under the radar and rely somewhat on fans and the owners of the various copyrights/trademarks keeping each other at arms length. Let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.

We have a lot to gain if we win a Fair Use court case, but we also have a lot to lose if we lose such a case. The thought of copyright owners having more than Cease & Desist Orders as their arsenel scares the hell out of me. *nods* A writer/archive/website receives a C&D, they close that site down and start again elsewhere. There are plenty of places to hide on the internet. But a writer etc who is forced to pay damages or at the least the copyright holder's legal costs? That is an entirely different matter. And I'm not sure just how much a Legal Defence Fund is going to be able to cover such a fan. Not if we end up with one loss and then a run-on of other copyright holders who feel it is worth it after a precedent is set.

[paraka]

go have a look at metafandom
Cool, thanks. I always seem to forget about metafandom, unless I see people in a discussion stating where they came from. I remember almost keeling over the one time I was linked.

Maybe it is because I'm an old school fanfic fan from the days of zines, but I'd much rather stay under the radar and rely somewhat on fans and the owners of the various copyrights/trademarks keeping each other at arms length. Let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.
Yeah, I can understand that. But I look at the history of the C&Ds handed out to fandom, especially in the early years, and I... really don't want that to happen to me. I don't want to have to roll over because today is the day they decided to acknowledge what we do (because they already *know*. I would like a way to be able at least stand a chance if I say "no". And maybe it's because my form of fanworks is one that is constantly getting C&Ds and having our content pulled down, where as fanfic is left more alone, but I want it to *stop*. I want the protection that the OTW is fighting for. And if we lose, well, I'd be willing to go back to those days where everything is behind locked doors, whatnot, it'd suck, but I think it's worth the risk.

[munchkinofdoom.livejournal.com]

I've been busy reading the new comments to this post before I knuckled under to answer you... *g*

A legal defence fund is going to have to look at a number of issues. And you hit one of them on the head in your reply to me. Vidding. That is another whole new ballgame when we are talking about C&D's. And I think it is a situation that OTW would be mad to use as their first test case. It is only my personal opinion, but I think that, on a sliding scale, vidding is actually the least defencible of our fannish works.

RPF/RPS is probably, from my limited thought on the subject, the most easily defencible as long as it is clearly marked as fiction. That would hopefully get around the libel/slander angle. There is usually no copyrighted material to be poached from, and RPF writers would hopefully only need to watch out for anyone who has trademarked their public persona. KISS would be a good example of this. Write about the band members, rather than their created characters, and libel/slander is probably all you'd need to worry about.

FPF/fanfic would be the middle ground, with fic based on material no longer copyrighted being safe, and a test case needed to decide if fanfic based on a copyrighted property is transformative enough to avoid being derivative.

But vidding, much as I love the artform, has a problem in that it uses a soundtrack with little change beyond cropping, and uses existing images to tell a new story. It is in the same medium as the source material, and is therefore harder to argue it is sufficiently transformative. Personally, I think the remixing of images is enough to make it transformative, but I think it is the music that is going to do us in!

cont...

[paraka]

Hmm, ok, I want to add a little as to my reasons for supporting the legal defense fund. I wasn't going to, but now I can't stop thinking about it, and I'll sleep better if I just get it out. :P

I think the days of "staying under the radar" are kind of over, or will be soon. Fandoms like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, have made if much more main stream. We're not so much flying under the radar as we're in the radar but pretending to be rocks. Things like Fanlib, especially put us there, since they're going to the copyright holders and getting them to donate prizes, while fandlib makes money off of fic writers. Things like the offical stargate novels are written by fandom writers. Things like the official fanfic contests are going on over at certain offical webpages (I think CBS and Battlestar Galactica were mentioned, but I'm not positive on that).
Now those things may sound positive, and they are to some extent, but once we show our hand to them, and they accept certain ones, then they are well on the way to rejecting others. They don't want us to have complete freedom with their characters and concepts.

This can really impact all areas of fandom that aren't gen or established ship. Slash? Good luck. Kink? No way in hell.

There's also the fact that copyrights themselves are rapidly morphing from their original conception. Thanks big businesses like Disney, copyright is now life +70 years. They can now trademark characters which are protected *forever*.

Look at things like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The copyright holder can come in and demand you remove content from the internet without court approval. This has already been abused so that legitimate content has been removed, sometimes *against* the copyright holder.

In Canada the big shots are currently trying to change our copyright laws so much so, that you can be violating copyright if you listen to something *the wrong way*. You can get fined or jail time, even if you *paid* for the product. (Actually, I think someone made the comment, that under the proposed law, you can technically be violating the copyright terms if you get up to go to the bathroom during a commercial break).

If we don't take a stand and say no, the big shot copyright holders will take *everything* and what little protection we had will be gone. We, the people (not just the fans, but definitely the fans as well) need to join in a united front and *stop* them, because they won't stop on their own. We need to be ready for when they do finally start dragging us into court and make sure that it's on our terms, that we get a say.

[munchkinofdoom.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree! The days of being under the radar are long gone, if they ever existed at all. There are tales from the 1980's of the 'sacred' Grandfather clause' which was why there has never been a test case for fanfic. Why it has only ever been C&D's as long as no profit was being made. I very carefully said profit being made rather than money changing hands, as the existance of zines was politely ignored by most copyright holders.

I've been googling 'grandfather clause fanfiction' and not getting much, but from memory: I think there was a legal opinion going around zine fandom in the earlyish days that if a copyright holder was going to go after a zine producer they would have to explain in court why they had chosen that particular zine producer and not the numerous zine producers before them. So, in effect, the copyright owners of Star Trek would have had to go and prosecute the zine producers in chronalogical order if they took such a case to court.

Not sure how viable that stance was, but it was something that had been bandied around fandom for years. So yes, we've never really been below the radar, but both sides have used that as a polite fiction to cover the situation.

With zines being very much on the wane and the transparently free fanfic economy of the internet, I suspect that polite fiction became even more entrenched. With so much fanfic out there, it is interesting that there is still not a test case. Yes, fans do succumb to C&D's, but it is interesting that no copyright holder (and there are some vitriolic ones out there) has yet taken it beyond a C&D.

OTW = A Good Start, But Not The End All/Be All

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

I'd like a fan history wiki that is transparent, group owned (aka not owned by one person or persons + persons who are accountable and unlikely to wander off). I also like the idea of seeing more articles etc discussing and documenting women in fan history. A central archive would be a nice complement (not a replacement) to the thousands of existing archives. And of course having some legal assistance or legal direction is all good.

In short, what I like about OTW is that it is a large group, a bit more formal/professional than your typical fan endeavor, less likely to be taken over by one single person/group and well funded. And that is is not trying to be (and frankly never will be able to be) the exclusive owner of fannish works or history.

In short, a good start with lots of room for others to branch off and still do their own thins.

Re: OTW = A Good Start, But Not The End All/Be All

[paraka]

A central archive would be a nice complement (not a replacement) to the thousands of existing archives.
Agreed. I'm finding that there are quite a few people out there angry at the fact that the OTW is trying to replace them (there's been a rather long discussion in these comments with regards to the wiki) but don't see that really it's just an *addition*. The more resources and choice fans have, the more enjoyable fandom is.

In short, what I like about OTW is that it is a large group, a bit more formal/professional than your typical fan endeavor, less likely to be taken over by one single person/group and well funded.
*nods* They've said they're going to be taking a lot on, and if it were just one person, I wouldn't expect it to happen, or that it would fall apart rather quickly if it did. And the professional aspect gives me hope that they'll be able to keep a bit more of a cool head, and not have things devolve into something that has fandom_wank gleeful.

[xtricks.livejournal.com]

I've been following OTW since it's first glimmer in a few BNFs personal journals and, while I'm ambiguous about the tenor of the organization, I'm pretty positive about several of the things they're trying to do.

I'm very interested in a central archive, so long as there's no cost to join and they do not have some sort of 'quality' restrictions (as 'quality' in fandom is mindbogglingly controversial, plus I don't think that sort of restriction has a place in fandom).

I suspect that the first time they are actually faced with a lawsuit, they will be very, very surprised and I remain quite concerned about the information that one of their lawyers has a very bad odor in fandom as a suspected/known plagarist. Personally, I belive that OTW is right - that fanfiction and other fanworks fall under the fair use clause of copyright law so, yes, I would support them if they were taken to court.

However: there are several fan wikis out there including: http://www.fanhistory.com/index.php/Main_Page which has been in existence for several years but is still struggling to get its existence out. I thing the owner has some trouble with ... objectivity however she is committed to allowing the wiki to be edited, created and modified to expand the range of opinions. She is also, I think, a bandom/rockfic (not sure of the terminology here) fan and not at all personally involved in fanfiction, particularly LJ - so her knowledge of that sort of material is limited. She is, in fact, putting out a call for fandom to help her with the wiki, to expand the information, do fact checking and so on. There are others, I belive theres a spesifc fanwiki.

(pardon the happy new year spelling ;/)

Some clarification on Fan History

[partly-bouncy.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to step in to correct some things. :)

I'm a Star Trek fan. I came into the Star Trek fandom on-line around 1994 on Prodigy's message boards and when Prodigy first began allowing access to the web. I was actively involved in the Babylon 5 fandom from 1996 to 1999 or so. During that same period, I was also involved with the Sailor Moon and X-Files fandom. In 2000, I was on staff at FanFiction.Net with Steven Savage. I ran Writers University based on the site. (I could get more into my fandom pedigree, but erf. Like all fans involved heavily, it gets loads of wanky.) I'm currently semi-actively in the CSI fandom and following large bits of other fandoms.

I just look like I'm in bandom because, as an outside interest beyond my own fandom involvement, I've been interested in since I founded FanDomination.Net, where I found a lot of my administrative work dealt with Good Charlotte, AFI, Mest fans. Because of that, I immersed myself in that community. I made contacts with other bandfic communities like RockFic. Through these, I became obsessed with bandom... I've really, really, really spent way too much time researching that community's history.

That all said, I'm aware that I have bias issues. :/ I've taken steps to help alleviate that. They include Adding a Neutral Point of View Dispute header (http://www.fanhistory.com/index.php/Fanhistory.com:Neutral_point_of_view), (And I use it for articles when I spot them where I know I have issues. Most recently, this included the article on William Petersen.) explained where I am bias and what steps I am taking to fix that (http://www.fanhistory.com/index.php/User:Laura/Resolved) (And I've made sure others are editing those articles since I've posted that) and included some of the bias related fixing stuff on the Books to do list (http://www.fanhistory.com/index.php/Fanhistory.com:Books_to_do...).

The lack of user contributions is a problem. The solution has been to reach out, as widely as possible, to tell people about the wiki and ask for their help. As a result, traffic has been up. Fan History had over 23,000 unique visitors in December. We've been averaging around ten plus unique contributors a day. The feeling I have, based on discussion with other contributors, is that Fan History is about six months away from being able to self generate traffic and being utilized more widely.

There are a number of existing fandom related history projects out there that rock. There are also wiki related ones. http://directorium.org/Home is a fantastic wiki which could have been consulted and changed the scope of. http://wiki.fandomwank.com/ might be wanky but they have a really good basis of historical information that could be utilized. There are also a number of fandom specific wikis which deal with history: http://www.dariawiki.org/ , and http://creekfandom.wikispaces.com and http://swfanon.wikia.com/ are the ones that are pretty good starting places. Mary Ellen Curtin's Foresmutters Project is not a wiki but it is a pretty exhaustive fan history related projected. Comic fandom and science fiction fandom both have their own share of historians. http://www.fanac.org/ is one of the best fandom history projects out there. Good stuff. (Music fandom does not have the same historical bent as the other two. Anime is hit or miss. Their focus tends to be more oriented on the product history than on fandom itself and I'm really digressing.)

[paraka]

I'm very interested in a central archive, so long as there's no cost to join
From what I understand, the cost to join that has been mentioned is the cost to be a member at large of the OTW, and so you have a right to vote on the board, and has nothing to do with using their services.

I suspect that the first time they are actually faced with a lawsuit, they will be very, very surprised
I think fans in general have trouble understanding *why* anyone would want to slap us with a lawsuit, and any lawsuit is going to require specific legwork, but from my understanding, they're already preparing arguments to use in court.

She is, in fact, putting out a call for fandom to help her with the wiki, to expand the information, do fact checking and so on.
Yeah, one of her friends has been commenting on this thread, and I think the owner is feeling threatened by the OTW and their plans for a wiki (she actually made a post on the wiki saying she doesn't feel objective enough to edit articles about the OTW amoung other topics). A lot of the users of that wiki seem to feel that the OTW is infringing on their work, but I don't think that being the first to do something means that you're going to be the best at it. I mean it's been open for years, but only has about 7000 articles, and as you said only cover a few fandoms in depth (which makes it a rather useless tool if you go there with a specific question in mind).
That's not to say I don't think their site isn't important, but nothing can be completely representative, which is why I encourage having more than one place to go.

[tacky-tramp.livejournal.com]

As someone who strongly believes that most, if not all, fanfiction is legal, I'm very excited about OTW. Whether or not we "need" a multifandom archive, it will be very nice to have that resource available -- an archive that is run by people who will not run scared at the first sight of takedown notices and the like. But you knew that already. :)

[paraka]

As someone who strongly believes that most, if not all, fanfiction is legal, I'm very excited about OTW. Whether or not we "need" a multifandom archive, it will be very nice to have that resource available
Ha, you sound a lot like me. I tend to think mostly about the legal side of things, and it's only as an after thought that I remember the archive part. I would enjoy having a big, well known multifandom archive that isn't ff.net though, for those times I have a one day desire to read fic from a fandom I'm not in, or one that's really small/rare.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd like a glossary, at least. Some kind of translation into plain English so people who don't speak tl;dr can understand what the hell they're talking about.

[paraka]

I would *kill* for a regularly updated glossary. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to look up net speak. Especially since so many of them are hard to put into context. I remember the first time I saw tl;dr. People were leaving that as their entire comment to something over on fandom_wank. How are you able to get "Too long; didn't read" from that if there's no real context to put it in? Luckily it was easily googleable, but when I first arrived in fandom, it took me over a year to learn what OTP stood for, and I would go on searches about once a month to try and find out.

Metafandom Wanderer

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I think the idea of OTW is a good one. They may not be doing everything as perfectly as some folks wish, but their intentions are good.

I have to say I agree with the opinions about not wanting the Powers That Be coming in and sweeping away everything fandom has - the idea of building some sort of defence against that is very heartening.

On the other hand, my ever-present cynical side wants to sit back and wait and see how things pan out.

Re: Metafandom Wanderer

[paraka]

They may not be doing everything as perfectly as some folks wish, but their intentions are good.
With fandom though, was that ever going to happen? What we want as a whole tends to contradict itself all over the place. *shakes head*
I agree though, they're trying, and we'll just have to wait and see how things turn out in the end.

I have to say I agree with the opinions about not wanting the Powers That Be coming in and sweeping away everything fandom has
That though honestly scares me. I mean, I've gone long periods of time without fandom since I've joined it, but the thought of never having the option of going back, or having to search so hard, and do everything in secrecy, with the thought that it could all be taken away again...? Totally unacceptable to me. :S

On the other hand, my ever-present cynical side wants to sit back and wait and see how things pan out.
Oh totally. That's kind of what I plan on doing. I'm supporting the OTW right now, but I won't be completely surprised if it doesn't pan out (or goes out in a blaze of glory).

[http://claimid.com/snowynight/ (from livejournal.com)]

Here via metafandom. I am a lurker and only follow the news of OTW via metafandom. To me, a archive which won't back up from vague threat at once is wonderful - I still remember when the move of LJ pushed so many authors to delete/put down/f-lock their work. It is a great strike to me. It will be great if there is a safe place to host and read the fannish stuff. A wiki which document the fandom culture will never be enough - I spends several months ignorant to the meaning of BNF. Now I am mostly an observer but I think OTW has potential.

[paraka]

Yeah, I hate how when something happens, so many things stop working, because suddenly people are deleting/locking/moving fics, so suddenly your list of links is somewhat useless, rec lists too.
I totally understand author's wanting to protect themselves, but I would like for fandom to have a chance to not need to deal with that kind of crap.

A wiki which document the fandom culture will never be enough
Yeah, there are far too many fannish terms, many of which are unique to single fandoms, or sub-cultures of fandom. Which is one of the reasons I was kind of surprised that many of the comments on this thread have been about whether the OTW should make a wiki since there's already one. I mean, one will *never* be enough.